Haldex + Redline MT-LV GL4?

F

fredoops

Joined
Dec 20, 2023
Messages
19
Location
Australia
Hi folks,

Something 'new' i've discovered, and not sure if it's been talked about.

I was looking at haldex fluid alternatives for my Opel Insignia AWD (aka Saab 9-5 Aero AWD AKA Buick Regal GS AWD), Gen 4 Haldex.

While looking on Redline's website, this came out as the recommandation:

MT-LV 70W/75W GL-4 GEAR OIL
Meet our newest addition to the GL-4 family!
For use in Haldex Clutch transfer case

Thats the same recommendation for Haldex's in VW/Audi/Volvo's, which makes sense since they'rea all the same system.

Now in the various car communities that has the haldex trasfer case, haldex fluid has always been tauted as "Super Special" which justify its high prices somewhat, while this redline MT-LV isnt cheap, it's not exacly in the same price category as some of the Haldex-specific fluids.

So... has anyone used this in a haldex diff? ...maybe this Haldex fluid isnt that special afterall?


Note I did do a UOA on the OEM haldex fill when I replaced it last year (ended up using the Ravenol AWD-H): https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/haldex-fluid-uoa-35k-mi-opel-insignia-buick-regal.377226/. The lab suggested the oil properties was very similar to Dexron 6 (but have very high phosphorus and Calcium).
 
I'd never substitute a fluid such as Haldex fluid based on a $30 spectrographic analysis. That tells you little to nothing about the frictional characteristics nor about anything that isn't generated from a metallic compound. You might do this but I would not.

As far as a Red Line product I would verify that with Red Line before I used it.

Lastly, how much fluid are you using that makes this an issue? IIRC my Tiguan uses less than a liter, and I can get it for a reasonable price at my dealership for the few times that I replace the fluid. Is the Red Line product even any cheaper?
 
kschachn said:
Lastly, how much fluid are you using that makes this an issue? IIRC my Tiguan uses less than a liter, and I can get it for a reasonable price at my dealership for the few times that I replace the fluid. Is the Red Line product even any cheaper?
Click to expand...
under a litre, but a bit hard when GM exited my country to "buy stuff off the dealership" that no longer exist.

Opel was sold off to stellantis which now has different part supply chain that makes buying stuff from Europe a PITA (not to mention my car was technically sold as a "Holden" here). Saab's dead, and shipping these days from US of A isnt cheap, RockAuto sells aftermarket "off brand" stuff anyway.

Buying from VW/Volvo Dealerships? You'd be suprised on the amount of dealership markup's here in Australia.
 
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fredoops said:
under a litre, but a bit hard when GM exited my country to "buy stuff off the dealership" that no longer exist.
Click to expand...
Well if you are certain they are all the same systems, how about the VW fluid? Or at least one that is a "Haldex fluid" rather than a gear oil.

One of the reasons I suggested you contact Red Line is because the vehicle also uses gear oil, correct? My VW does. Front and rear, with the Haldex a separate system. I have seen it confused on websites before. Amsoil gets it right but they do not offer a Haldex replacement, which lends evidence to me that it is not just a gear oil. They make a product recommendation for the gears but not the Haldex.

What was wrong with the Ravenol product you used back in January?
 
kschachn said:
What was wrong with the Ravenol product you used back in January?
Click to expand...

Retail price doubled here since Dec 23.
kschachn said:
Well if you are certain they are all the same systems, how about the VW fluid? Or at least one that is a "Haldex fluid" rather than a gear oil.
Click to expand...
OEM VAG is close to double the price of the Ravenol before the recent price hikes, and is around 3x the price of this Redline stuff.

Local "febi" haldex oil seller disappeared so now it's shopped from UK if you buy online, which will cost the same as the VW dealer.
 
Well sucks to live on an island I guess.

No matter what you do I would not, ever, use that Red Line product without confirmation from them. But like I said maybe that's just me. I'd bite the bullet and pay double for the Ravenol for the few times I need a liter. It's not breaking the bank in terms of lifetime vehicle cost.
 
fredoops said:
Hi folks,

Something 'new' i've discovered, and not sure if it's been talked about.

I was looking at haldex fluid alternatives for my Opel Insignia AWD (aka Saab 9-5 Aero AWD AKA Buick Regal GS AWD), Gen 4 Haldex.

While looking on Redline's website, this came out as the recommandation:

MT-LV 70W/75W GL-4 GEAR OIL
Meet our newest addition to the GL-4 family!
For use in Haldex Clutch transfer case

Thats the same recommendation for Haldex's in VW/Audi/Volvo's, which makes sense since they'rea all the same system.

Now in the various car communities that has the haldex trasfer case, haldex fluid has always been tauted as "Super Special" which justify its high prices somewhat, while this redline MT-LV isnt cheap, it's not exacly in the same price category as some of the Haldex-specific fluids.

So... has anyone used this in a haldex diff? ...maybe this Haldex fluid isnt that special afterall?

Note I did do a UOA on the OEM haldex fill when I replaced it last year (ended up using the Ravenol AWD-H): https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/haldex-fluid-uoa-35k-mi-opel-insignia-buick-regal.377226/. The lab suggested the oil properties was very similar to Dexron 6 (but have very high phosphorus and Calcium).
Click to expand...
According to this UOA the fluid is more like a 7.0 cSt@100C or 38 cSt@40C fluid (similar to a Dex/Merc or the Redline D4).

According to the general additive signature, this Haldex fluid is more similar to the MTF fluids found in this list of 75W75's:

1.Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 ,3
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Penrite Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9. FUCHS Titan Sintofluid FE 75W Manual Transmission Oil. GL-4 75W Gear Oil
10. Redline Power Steering Fluid R
11. RAVENOL STF
12. HPL Manual Transmission Life 75W75 7.1 cSt
 
kschachn said:
So you can get the Red Line product so much cheaper that it's worth the effort for one liter?
Click to expand...
1. It's about having options.

2. It's about availability, before doubling the price the Ravenol AWDH was out of stock for just under half a year with the local supplier, US sellers refused to ship that stuff overseas (due to air freight restrictions, even my US mail forwarder don't do it)

3. Even though some of the VW haldex is a gen4 it's a physically different design, y'all got external filters access on the VW, Opel doesn't, and the haldex pump part number is slightly different also. Dealers here also don't like to sell you parts without you giving them a Vin number.

4. Given haldex fluid change is a complete open case fluid change, it'll be a full fluid swap so risk from mixing different fluid chemistries is minimised.

Haivng alternatives and backups is good considering everything we've just gone thru over Covid. Different supply chains for different countries.
 
Last edited:
fredoops said:
^^^ thanks

I'll shoot off an email to them as suggested. meanwhile, this is on their website

https://www.redlineoil.com/mt-lv-70w75w

OEM Compatibility
...
Haldex Coupling AWD Systems
---
Click to expand...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/haldex-fluid-uoa-35k-mi-opel-insignia-buick-regal.377226/

According to this UOA the fluid is more like a 7.0 cSt@100C or 38 cSt@40C fluid (similar to a Dex/Merc or the Redline D4).

According to the oil properties listed here:

https://www.ravenol.de/en/oiltests/record/oil-test-analyse-awd-h-fluid

this fluid is about 25cSt@40C and 5.4cSt@100C. So we have a conflict that needs to be resolved.

So the MT-LV is about 1cSt@100C viscosity above the AWD-H, but probably insignificant.

Ask Redline if the additive composition for MT-LV is an exact copy of the AWD-H.

Asking the right question results in getting the correct data.
 
Last edited:
kschachn said:
I don’t really care that much about options I guess. I just care about getting the right fluid and making sure it’s been serviced properly, especially on something like this that is rarely done. But you may have other goals.
Click to expand...
Other goals yes.

I admin the insignia owner groups on FB and there's issues with maintaining those cars locally among members, due to 3 growing trends with mechanics:

1. growing trend of mechanics refusing customer BYO parts
2. mechanics refusing to use unofficially supported parts, ie: VW Haldex oil in an Opel, even if it's the same oil, if the label don't match, they will refuse the job, they'd rather use universal/aftermarket parts that sticker says compatible.
3. mechanics refuse to buy from overseas suppliers.

all 3 above are related to legal liability/insurance risks, universal/aftermarket parts are insured by the local supplier of the parts so the mechanics would rather use them that claims to be compatible, the "right fluid" chemically and mechanically could be the "wrong fluid" from a legal liability perspective.

Mechanics will simply refuse the work if there are no compatible parts or if the aftermarket part is unavailable locally.

You'd be very hard pressed to get a mechanic to use Volvo/VW Haldex fluid in your Opel/Holden.

So you're most likely left with DIY, but unlike VW, servicing the haldex in the opel which involves dropping the entire exhaust, dropping the driveshaft and unbolting the rear subframe, it's beyond most DIY'ers at home.

So yes, options are important. Redline has a much bigger supplier network in Australia compared to Ravenol (1 single official supplier)
 
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Hey mate, I use Liqui Moly Multi-Disc Clutch Oil in the Haldex of all my Volvos. Easy to get in Australia and well priced. As a mechanic, I’d use it in your Insignia with confidence.
 
fredoops said:
Hi folks,

Something 'new' i've discovered, and not sure if it's been talked about.

I was looking at haldex fluid alternatives for my Opel Insignia AWD (aka Saab 9-5 Aero AWD AKA Buick Regal GS AWD), Gen 4 Haldex.

While looking on Redline's website, this came out as the recommandation:

MT-LV 70W/75W GL-4 GEAR OIL
Meet our newest addition to the GL-4 family!
For use in Haldex Clutch transfer case

Thats the same recommendation for Haldex's in VW/Audi/Volvo's, which makes sense since they'rea all the same system.

Now in the various car communities that has the haldex trasfer case, haldex fluid has always been tauted as "Super Special" which justify its high prices somewhat, while this redline MT-LV isnt cheap, it's not exacly in the same price category as some of the Haldex-specific fluids.

So... has anyone used this in a haldex diff? ...maybe this Haldex fluid isnt that special afterall?


Note I did do a UOA on the OEM haldex fill when I replaced it last year (ended up using the Ravenol AWD-H): https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/haldex-fluid-uoa-35k-mi-opel-insignia-buick-regal.377226/. The lab suggested the oil properties was very similar to Dexron 6 (but have very high phosphorus and Calcium).
Click to expand...
Thats what my Hyundai Kona transmission specs ( front diff and gearbox in same cavity/same oil) . 70w-75 and I used that for a bit. Since my car is tuned and I thrash the heck out of it. I went up to Redline 70w-85 that is still GL-4 but the description says "Korean car " use so it was a no brain anyway. The 75 is just CAFE BS. After talking to the Redline lead chemist which luckily I called when the normal Redline guy was on vacation, so the lead chemist guy was answering question for the week. He said yes up it. That doesnt answer your Haldex question though. I might try the GL-5 NS version speced for Subaru's and others for a more robust oil as I am not too worried about my syncro brass as it is over blown and it has been account for in the NS version. I will call to double check with Redline before using the NS GL-5 though. That will be next spring.
 
I saw this recently as well. Seems like some questions remain...anyone speak to Redline? The Liquimoly product seems hard to source here in the U.S...Summit shows having it of all places. I just use the Febi or Vaico fluids from FCP...cheap and work.
 
TiGeo said:
Any updates here on the Redline product being ok to use for Haldex? @fredoops
Click to expand...
I don't see why they'd disagree with their data sheet, which specifically lists the Gen4/5 haldex fluid p/ns.

Personally I just ordered the Ravenol AWD-H. Looks better on paper, plus ravenol publishes KRL test results, which gives me warm fuzzies.

I am curious why Redline is so free with their recommendations (other than opening up marketshare). Most of their VW/Audi drivetrain suggestions seem to go with transmission fluids (with synchro additives) over plain gear oils.
 
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