Greece collaspes.

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Originally Posted By: THE_TROTS
At least Greece bankrupted themselves spending borrowed money on their own people.

We are not far behind. The difference is, we spend our borrowed money on handouts to defense contractors, any sort of big business, the bourgeoisie, and pretty much anyone who does not need a handout.

Before I hear about welfare mammas and such (which is a problem) this is crumbs compared to the corporate welfare system we have. We allow corporations to privatize their profits, but subsidize their losses.


I have posted this before. If the DOD budget was zero there is still a deficit.
 
That's the issue - it's not valueless if people ascribe value to it. Anything can be currency or have value. I'd hate to see what the price of gold would be right now if all currency actually had to be backed by gold reserves.
 
People ascribe wealth to a debt instrument forced upon them by their corrupt central bank, because they have been lied to.

Kids around the world believe in Santa but that doesn't make him exist

And think, if all currency had to be backed by gold you could buy a car for a hundred dollars or so..

When people start to realise how they are slaves to interest payments the 'value' of the currency will drop away very sharply. Lincoln and Kennedy both wanted the Govt. to control the money, to take it out of the hands of Rothschilds and Rockerfellers.
 
How would backing all currency by gold decrease the price of the car? The units of currency are meaningless on their own. A $100 car isn't cheap if someone works for fifty cents a day. If they make $5 a day, there's something to that.

The problem that a lot of people don't get is that you produce a certain amount of goods or services in a day and you sell it at the market price. Debt isn't always voluntary, but not all debt is forced upon us. No one "must" purchase a brand new car or a house, or load up their credit cards.

There's way too much talk in the world about forced debt and wage slavery. Monty Burns had it right when he said "wage donkeys."
wink.gif
The real slaves are the ones who have to work for the benefit of those who'd rather not.
 
If a donkey is worth 1 ounce of gold, $1,000, or 50 bushels of corn, I can't see how one medium of exchange is better or more intrinsically valuable than the other. Donkeys and corn wear out/rot, so paper and gold are better in that respect, or worse whether you need transportation or food.

I don't get how gold works as a "better", inflationless currency (that makes cars $100).

In order to do that, you need to stop the concept of investing or earning interest on money that you lend someone else...Islamic loans are sort of achieving that...with paper/electronic money.
 
And given how interconnected the world is, and how important economies of scale and commodities are, I think the days of really stable pricing are over, no matter how we tinker with interest rates and loan practices. Stable pricing had a lot to do with very stable marketplaces and slow communications and transportation. Of course, that's not to say there weren't bubbles or crashes in the past, even in the distant past.

And we need currency of convenience. Paying for a supertanker of oil or buying a billion dollar company with bags of gold isn't terribly convenient, or safe.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
It's sad to see that so many people believe in this system of valueless money, and allow it to have such power over their lives.


Then send all that "valueless" money you have to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
People ascribe wealth to a debt instrument forced upon them by their corrupt central bank, because they have been lied to.

How does the Central Bank (whatever that is) have anything to do with Politicians giving free money to people to be re-elected.?

Quote:
Lincoln and Kennedy both wanted the Govt. to control the money, to take it out of the hands of Rothschilds and Rockerfellers.

Oh boy...you really believe that don't you?
 
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I think it would interesting if Greece just defaulted on their debt and started again with their own currency, staying deficit free.
Index reasonable government pensions to cost of living or GDP and see what happens. I think they have the tourist attractions and human resources to do fine if they have too. Prices will drop for a while but that will attract more tourists.
 
One medium of exchange is better than another because one of those media holds its value indefinitely, is not subject to inflation or interest and is not based on, or brought about, throug the creation of debt.
The other media is fluid, manipulated, unstable and never exists in sufficient volume to pay the debt attached to it.

Which one sounds better?
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think it would interesting if Greece just defaulted on their debt and started again with their own currency, staying deficit free.
Index reasonable government pensions to cost of living or GDP and see what happens. I think they have the tourist attractions and human resources to do fine if they have too. Prices will drop for a while but that will attract more tourists.



If the Greek govt. we're responsible for the creation and distribution of the currency without the influence of a central bank they would carry on indefinitely. Borrowing money at interest has been the root cause of their problem.
 
I loved visiting but the could clearly understand why that place is destined to fail. Lots of pride and corruption.

At least the immgrigants we get(likely more now) actually work quite hard in the US unlike the homeland.
 
Greece imports too much for this to work in the short term.

Existing creditors will want to be paid and no one will ship Greek business any merchandise unless they are paid in a stable currency such as the Euro or Dollar.

Personally, I think they should let Greece go, and financially firewall off the damage. Let the other Euro Zone nations that are teetering on the brink, Italy, Spain and Portugal see what happens if you don't get your financial ship in order.

I heard talk of letting Greece have a sabbatical from the Euro, until they get their stuff in order. So not in, not out, but on their own until they've sorted out what they need to.

Maybe Greece will see they need the Euro more than the Euro needs them?

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think it would interesting if Greece just defaulted on their debt and started again with their own currency, staying deficit free.
Index reasonable government pensions to cost of living or GDP and see what happens. I think they have the tourist attractions and human resources to do fine if they have too. Prices will drop for a while but that will attract more tourists.



If the Greek govt. we're responsible for the creation and distribution of the currency without the influence of a central bank they would carry on indefinitely. Borrowing money at interest has been the root cause of their problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
One medium of exchange is better than another because one of those media holds its value indefinitely, is not subject to inflation or interest and is not based on, or brought about, throug the creation of debt.

Which medium would that be, the donkey, the dollar, the bar of gold, or the bushel of grain? They all have fluctuating value, even those that have a tangible, immediate use.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Greece imports too much for this to work in the short term.

Existing creditors will want to be paid and no one will ship Greek business any merchandise unless they are paid in a stable currency such as the Euro or Dollar.

Personally, I think they should let Greece go, and financially firewall off the damage. Let the other Euro Zone nations that are teetering on the brink, Italy, Spain and Portugal see what happens if you don't get your financial ship in order.

I heard talk of letting Greece have a sabbatical from the Euro, until they get their stuff in order. So not in, not out, but on their own until they've sorted out what they need to.

Maybe Greece will see they need the Euro more than the Euro needs them?

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think it would interesting if Greece just defaulted on their debt and started again with their own currency, staying deficit free.
Index reasonable government pensions to cost of living or GDP and see what happens. I think they have the tourist attractions and human resources to do fine if they have too. Prices will drop for a while but that will attract more tourists.



If the Greek govt. we're responsible for the creation and distribution of the currency without the influence of a central bank they would carry on indefinitely. Borrowing money at interest has been the root cause of their problem.


thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think it would interesting if Greece just defaulted on their debt and started again with their own currency, staying deficit free.


I really don't think Greeks can be expected to remain debt free. One of the main reasons they joined the Euro was so they could pay lower interest rates on their debt.
 
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