Great Job, GM!

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The Critic

The Critic

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http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2009/04/camaro-brake-weights-nothing-new-bmw-does-it-too.html

Yeah, I'd be pretty ticked if my 35k Camaro had these lead weights on its calipers. It looks absolutely hideous. With that said, I think this poster on the Camaro forum is probably correct as to why the caliper weights exist:

Quote:
This thread just gets more and more interesting. I happen to be an engineer, and I will bet that the weights was a method that was used to see if the noise can be dampened, but that management forced them to actually USE the weights, under the protest of the engineers. I don't know an engineer who would have suggested such a fix to go out to the customer.

As far as the "official" GM explanation, it makes no sense to say that high performance cars are especially prone to brake noise. That's just a cute way of taking your focus off of the problem and puffing you up by telling you that you have some sort of special exotic vehicle. Every car on the road stops in just about the same way, with a brake pad pushed up against a rotor. It's just a [censored] statement.

Don't get me wrong, I love this new Camaro. But I worked as an auto mechanic for many years, and just have to say I have never seen such a mickey-mouse bandaid before.


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpost.php?s=91a11976ea6bef704936f227464072d8&p=431865&postcount=412
 
Unacceptable. How are the stuck on? Tape?

That is the LAST place you want something that could come flying off while you're braking from 100MPH.
 
Bwaaahahahaa! Those are [censored] wheel weights!!

Seriously, you can't let accountants run your company, or this is what you get. Eventually people find out about this kind of mockery to automotive engineering and quit buying the cars. And then your company declares Ch. 11. Sound familiar?

But on a serious note, how the [censored] would wheel weights reduce brake squeal? Honestly I feel really bad for GM engineers, I know that they are in a sticky situation. I really really want GM to succeed, but how in the [censored] does the biggest automotive company in the world resort to this kind of junk?????
 
I wouldn't worry about it flying off ..but getting banged up and whatnot with handling. I can't see it being a long term durable feature.

You see, Critic? As we progress we seem to be going backwards on reliability. You now need a degree in brake maintenance for something that is decades old. The state of the art is in a state of dysfunction.
 
From a former Hyundai chassis and brake development engineer:

Quote:


These are not comparable examples.

Lead sticky weights in production are not cool. Someone goofed.

In early prototype stages an engineer might try something like this to test a theory ahead of requesting a production-ready design change. Maybe the design change was rejected as too expensive and this was the fall-back.

But's it's so obvious and visible. Even if they'll never fall off, it looks crude.

The BMW shot shows a production fix that's much more sanitary. And it's much more understandable because the 135i has Brembo calipers that might show up in numerous applications. The masses bolted on here look like intentional noise-tuning design features--each application gets a different thickness to tune the caliper to a particular car's resonant frequency.

Sure, it's not ideal, but think of it as tailoring a suit without starting from scratch.

You'll find mass dampers all over the underside of any car. The trick is integrating them elegantly and making it look factory.

From that POV, these two are hardly the same.


Posted by "actualsize" in the comments section of the first link in the original post.
 
Let's say GM survives the current mess and drags this body style camaro on for a dozen years or so.

Thirty years from now at cruise ins, people will be bragging about how they got one of the rare, low numbered cars as evidenced by the sticky weight hack.
 
General Motors the Heartbreak of America, said it before and even though the boards so called experts say otherwise there is a bit of proof. Probably the weight changes a few things about the frequency of the vibrations .The lead should have been given to Rick as a going away gift.
 
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
GM lovers aren't here to defend this?
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Hey, now! Honda goofs too!

I'VE SPENT $350 DOLLARS OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS TRYING TO GET SOME SALES LITERATURE FROM HONDA VIA THE TELEPHONE.........

Honda prints phone sex number in 1.2 million car manuals
08/02/2006,
Honda this week said it misprinted a toll-free auto-safety phone number in 1.2 million car manuals for the 2006 model year. Instead of an ‘888′ prefix, Honda printed an ‘800.’ And customers who attempted to use the phone number didn’t get just any service. They were greeted by a phone sex line — “for live one-on-one talk with a hot fantasy girl.”
 
Originally Posted By: Dude on Camaro Forum
As far as the "official" GM explanation, it makes no sense to say that high performance cars are especially prone to brake noise. That's just a cute way of taking your focus off of the problem and puffing you up by telling you that you have some sort of special exotic vehicle. Every car on the road stops in just about the same way, with a brake pad pushed up against a rotor. It's just a [censored] statement.


With bigger rotors and pads, the pad pressure to provide the same stopping power as a smaller system is much lower, and the materials used in high-end brakes are optimized for higher temperatures than needed for daily driving. Both factors may contribute to brake squeal, though I'd think they should be able to design around that problem even on a supercar. That said, those brakes don't look very big, and they're on a car that will be a daily driver for most of its owners, so I certainly won't argue with those who consider either noisy brakes or the hack fix to be unacceptable on that car.

As an engineer, that guy should also know that you decrease the amplitude of an oscillating system by damping it, not dampening it!
grin2.gif


My Mazda3 brakes were originally very noisy when both cold and under light braking load. I probably would have preferred to have weights on the caliper of my Mazda3 than squealing brakes, though I don't think I'd be able to fit my 16" winter wheels with the thickness of weights shown in the picture of the Camaro brakes. Some "Disc Brake Quiet" on the back of the pads fixed the problem, so obviously Mazda could have done something with the back of the pads to fix the problem from the factory.
 
ummm.. I'm not surprised at all. Was looking to buy a Pontiac G8, but after researching them extensively on g8board.com I decided not to. Few members on there claim that the dealer used the same sticker wheel weights to "fix" some kind of driveline vibration - as directed by GM.
 
Originally Posted By: vlado11
ummm.. I'm not surprised at all. Was looking to buy a Pontiac G8, but after researching them extensively on g8board.com I decided not to. Few members on there claim that the dealer used the same sticker wheel weights to "fix" some kind of driveline vibration - as directed by GM.


It's GM's new low-buck solution to drivetrain and chassis vibrations. They lack the budget to re-engineer, so they slap on some sticky-weights!
 
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