Free GM oil change

[ViragoBry]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
the camaro from '82 to '92 was the 3rd gen. the 4th gen car ('93 to '02) was a completely new platform. the new LS engine family was introduced in '98.
so, there WERE changes, many of them, from '82 to '02. and the new 5th gen does have much in common w/ the 4th gen, namely, the drivetrain. the new LS3 is the current incarnation of the LS1 from '98.
the LS equipped 4th gens are a great perfomance deal, can be had cheap, respond well to mods, and have proved themselves in road racing and drag racing.


There's no denying that the LS is the best thing to ever happen to the Camaro, but having a car that proves itself in road racing and drag racing is a far cry from having a high quality, well-built automobile sitting in your driveway. The design direction it took in 1982 was echoed in 1993 and drug on with meaningless cosmetic changes (engineering changes aside for a moment)for a decade - in much the same way the Mustang took a strange turn in 1979, which lasted until 1993. They both had their respective fan bases, but were never known for being well-built. They both rested on the laurels of their drivetrains for years. Chevy just drug it out for too long on the same platform, and people were sick of it years before it was killed off. Strange that they're BOTH back where they started stylewise, but I'm glad the Camaro's back and have every reason to believe it's light years ahead of the 1982 - 2002 generations in build quality.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.


'Cos there is no other Car manufacturers that produce cars on this continent other than the Big 3 right? Gimme a break!

Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea? How come it's ok for the big 3 to sell their Dies to places like China and have parts made there?

WAKE UP!

 

[RacerE7773]

Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
Well I'm sorry but I do share in his amusement. GM dropped the Camaro 7 yrs ago because it was a non selling turd and now they rush one back to market because the Mustang has done so well. I've listened to all the Ford bashing for years and now all of a sudden they just MAY be the last man standing. I call it poetic justice. GM brought on all the nut kicking they get on their own. Ford does tend to put a lot more "moral content" for the most part into their cars lately. Just hope the idiot's at GM and Chryco don't drag them down also. There...I'll get off my soapbox now.

I'm looking at Ford next car I plan to buy (not for awhile, though. The lack of build quality on the cavalier has me ticked and the impala isn't much better.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
The Pinto-based Mustang II is the ONLY thing that kept the Mustang around past 1973.



Um, yea. That, and the fact that Farrah Fawcett drove one in the Charlie's Angels TV show.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.



Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea?

you don't know what you are talking about.
saturn aura: american
saturn outlook: american
saturn astra: belgium
saturn vue: mexican
saturn sky: american

 

[The_Jeff]

Camaro sold well in the 60's/70's/80's. IMO it got so cheap and so fast high school kids were killing themselves and others way too often... and insurance rates put the keibosh on things. Sort of a victim of its own success.

It was also honing in on corvette territory, which tarnished the corvette brand. Everyone knew you, I, GM could transplant the top Vette motor but chose not to. Base corvette was often the hot camaro.

Now they have a retro model squarely marketed at midlife crisis types... smart... those people still have money (credit).

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
. . .
but, to be fair, when something goes right, how apt are you to post about that?
"hey, just wanted to say nothing went wrong w/ my car today"
FWIW, I just came up on 5 years on my made in spring hill, TN Saturn VUE. 64K, runs well, just maintenance, one little warranty issue a few yrs ago (fixed, no probs, no headaches) and I just got a new gas cap under recall.
so, based on MY experiences, I WOULD buy a new GM.


64,000 miles? WOW! That's impressive. (Yes for the record I am being somewhat sarcastic here).
Do you think you will be able to say "no problems" at 150,000 miles? How about even 100,000?

Seriously, I'm glad it has worked out for you, but my experience with GM has been less than impressive.
At just over 50K miles my GM SUV has been at the dealership more times than all my other 3 cars combined! (One of them has over 200,000 miles on it).

I have to agree with Steve and others here - GM and their dealerships leave much to be desired. For one of the problems on my SUV I DID take it to 3 different dealerships (including the one I bought it from). One said "Couldn't find the problem" second said "Didn't know what the problem was" and the third tried some Mickey Mouse thing that didn't work.
A customer should NOT have to sue to get their vehicle working correctly.

Back to the original topic though - I DO give GM credit for fixing this problem. I am always impressed when a car maker (anybody - Toyota, Ford, GM, whoever) voluntarily recalls a vehicle to fix a problem.
But I wonder - why it wasn't discovered in the testing?

 

[mpvue]

yes, ins rates had a lot to do w/ it, starting in '73. all at the same time, the performance cars got hit w/ more stringent emissions, 5mph bumpers, and higher insurance. they tried to compensate by going to a 'net' hp rating instead of 'gross', but they also really did lose hp because they dropped compression ratios.
all these things are why the classic musclecar era is deemed to have ended in '72. hp ratings kept dropping through the '70s, and cars kept getting heavier.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Originally Posted By: mpvue
the camaro from '82 to '92 was the 3rd gen. the 4th gen car ('93 to '02) was a completely new platform. the new LS engine family was introduced in '98.
so, there WERE changes, many of them, from '82 to '02. and the new 5th gen does have much in common w/ the 4th gen, namely, the drivetrain. the new LS3 is the current incarnation of the LS1 from '98.
the LS equipped 4th gens are a great perfomance deal, can be had cheap, respond well to mods, and have proved themselves in road racing and drag racing.


There's no denying that the LS is the best thing to ever happen to the Camaro, but having a car that proves itself in road racing and drag racing is a far cry from having a high quality, well-built automobile sitting in your driveway. The design direction it took in 1982 was echoed in 1993 and drug on with meaningless cosmetic changes (engineering changes aside for a moment)for a decade - in much the same way the Mustang took a strange turn in 1979, which lasted until 1993. They both had their respective fan bases, but were never known for being well-built. They both rested on the laurels of their drivetrains for years. Chevy just drug it out for too long on the same platform, and people were sick of it years before it was killed off. Strange that they're BOTH back where they started stylewise, but I'm glad the Camaro's back and have every reason to believe it's light years ahead of the 1982 - 2002 generations in build quality.


The Mustang's strange turn; the Fox Body, led to record sales for the car and created the largest enthusiast base for any single car model. The Fox has the largest aftermarket following of any car in the world.

The 4th gen F-body cars were a love it or hate it type car. Unfortunately, it seemed more people hated it than loved it, as the sales figures were atrocious.

I too hope, for GM's sake, that the 5th gen Camaro is vastly superior to its predecessors, but the issues we are already seeing is trying to point a finger to the situation being otherwise...

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: mpvue
. . .
but, to be fair, when something goes right, how apt are you to post about that?
"hey, just wanted to say nothing went wrong w/ my car today"
FWIW, I just came up on 5 years on my made in spring hill, TN Saturn VUE. 64K, runs well, just maintenance, one little warranty issue a few yrs ago (fixed, no probs, no headaches) and I just got a new gas cap under recall.
so, based on MY experiences, I WOULD buy a new GM.


64,000 miles? WOW! That's impressive. (Yes for the record I am being somewhat sarcastic here).
Do you think you will be able to say "no problems" at 150,000 miles? How about even 100,000?


well, my commute is only 29 miles, so that's all I could manage so far.
what does it matter what I 'think' will happen in 100K or 150K? I'll deal with whatever happens. but, I have no reason to expect that it will suddenly fall apart in the next few years, my experience leads me to believe it will continue to be a good car if I continue to treat it the same.
a few yrs ago I needed a work van, so I bought a cheap '94 GMC safari. had all the room I needed, never broke down, only thing it needed once was a starter (10 minute street repair). I only paid like $400 for the van, served me well for 2 yrs. had over 130K on it.
my point is that it was a 12 year old, high mileage van that performed to expectations. to me it showed that GM knows how to build a reliable truck, and if I needed another, that's what I would buy. no import brand makes a van that could replace the astro/safari van.
OTOH, my experiences w/ mazda are less than stellar, yet I kept going back to them (and that may stop). '94 626 V6: leaky valve cover gaskets by 50K miles, bad struts, horrible handling, req 91 octane, horrible mpg (25mpg hwy). '00 MPV, good van (it had a ford drivetrain) just underpowered. didn't have it long enough for anything to go wrong. current '96 MPV: works well when it does, but has had everything go wrong w/ it. after spending almost $3K in the last 2 yrs on it, I wonder if I should have gotten a AWD astro instead.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
yes, ins rates had a lot to do w/ it, starting in '73. all at the same time, the performance cars got hit w/ more stringent emissions, 5mph bumpers, and higher insurance. they tried to compensate by going to a 'net' hp rating instead of 'gross', but they also really did lose hp because they dropped compression ratios.
all these things are why the classic musclecar era is deemed to have ended in '72. hp ratings kept dropping through the '70s, and cars kept getting heavier.


NET HP was developed by the SAE, and whilst the NUMBERS look smaller, it is a much more "real" representation of the power the engine produces, since it is tested as the engine would be placed in the car, with full accessory load.

The 225HP (NET) 302 in the '87 Fox Body Mustang made around the same power (GROSS) as the 325HP 350 found in the 1st gen F-body.

The current crop of GM's LSx engines make more power than any production engine that company has ever made.

FWIW, the deviation between GROSS and NET is oft cited as being approximately 30-40%.

So the 505HP LS7 in the C6 Z06 would be 656-707HP; touching on the HP figures of Ford's legendary "Cammer", but doing it with full exhaust, accessories and emissions equipment and while knocking back fantastic fuel mileage.

 

[Bamaro]

I hope that the Camaro and GM do well (Ford & Chrysler too for that matter). GM did the right thing here. I find little amusing about the economic problems of the auto industry.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: PT1
They are under so much financial stress they are overlooking all kinds of design issues and pushing cars out the door. They just posted another huge $6 billion loss from Q1 2009 today. Ford's quality is going up while GM's is going down.

"All kinds"? More than any other company of comparable size? I'd like to see numbers on that.

And since when has GM's quality been going down? On the whole, their current cars seem MUCH better built than their 10 or even 5 year old counterparts.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.



Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea?

you don't know what you are talking about.
saturn aura: american
saturn outlook: american
saturn astra: belgium
saturn vue: mexican
saturn sky: american


Sorry my post above should have read "... how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles parts from Korea..."

Missed the word... Sorry.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.



Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea?

you don't know what you are talking about.
saturn aura: american
saturn outlook: american
saturn astra: belgium
saturn vue: mexican
saturn sky: american


Sorry my post above should have read "... how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles parts from Korea..."

Missed the word... Sorry.


it's a global economy. I would think that most all car mfgrs get their parts from all over.
saturn used to have the most domestic parts content of anybody, but I haven't looked at any current models. my '04 VUE IIRC was like 89 or 91% domestic (it has an Italian transmission).

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

"All kinds"? More than any other company of comparable size? I'd like to see numbers on that.

And since when has GM's quality been going down? On the whole, their current cars seem MUCH better built than their 10 or even 5 year old counterparts.


Gee I don't see a GM vehicle listed on on your signature yet just a BMW. Want some numbers? OK how about $102,000 I spent on the last 2 GM SUV's I bought where neither one made it to 100k. How's those numbers. If you are so quick to defend GM then trade that beemer in on a GMC Yukon Denali and roll the dice.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.



Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea?

you don't know what you are talking about.
saturn aura: american
saturn outlook: american
saturn astra: belgium
saturn vue: mexican
saturn sky: american


Sorry my post above should have read "... how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles parts from Korea..."

Missed the word... Sorry.


it's a global economy. I would think that most all car mfgrs get their parts from all over.
saturn used to have the most domestic parts content of anybody, but I haven't looked at any current models. my '04 VUE IIRC was like 89 or 91% domestic (it has an Italian transmission).


I believe the VUE is now made in Mexico.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, while I don't discount your stories about your and your neighbors GM products, and I believe in voting with your wallets, your glee about the failure of American/Canadian products in general make me ill. The next job to go away in North America sure might be yours.



Also how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles from Korea?

you don't know what you are talking about.
saturn aura: american
saturn outlook: american
saturn astra: belgium
saturn vue: mexican
saturn sky: american


Sorry my post above should have read "... how come no one seems to mind that Saturn imports vehicles parts from Korea..."

Missed the word... Sorry.


it's a global economy. I would think that most all car mfgrs get their parts from all over.
saturn used to have the most domestic parts content of anybody, but I haven't looked at any current models. my '04 VUE IIRC was like 89 or 91% domestic (it has an Italian transmission).


I believe the VUE is now made in Mexico.

yeah, I said that.

 

[sciphi]

GM is a good engine company. Too bad the rest of their vehicles are rubbish. My Buick is 10 years old with 60k miles and rusty as anything. And I'd love some new intake manifold gaskets on the house because of the Nylon-66/Dex-Cool fiasco.

Glad to hear they're doing the right thing before anybody dies.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
GM is a good engine company.


The 2 piston slapper engines I had on my last 2 trucks were my number 1 complaint. Which went totally ignored by their service people. I got the "they all do that" response.