Good read on 0w20 from Honda

[bubbajoe_2112]

January 2010 Honda Service News

Pg. 2:

"Honda has been developing and testing engines for
a number of years now with the expectation that
someday 0W-20 would become the oil of choice. It’s
been used in many Honda models sold in Europe
and Japan since 2001 with no reported problems,
and it’s been the factory fill for all Insights and Civic
Hybrids sold in the U.S."

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Are you sure you're not Buick GN's cousin?

And no, I've never been on BITOG before...



Never been here, but know Mr Buick? I call doo dee on that. Sounds like the banned coming back to troll.



Yup, smells a bit funny to me too.......

He is Buick GN. Don't feed the troll


Who is BuickGN? Certainly not Bubba. I knew BuickGN quite well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
January 2010 Honda Service News

Pg. 2:

"Honda has been developing and testing engines for
a number of years now with the expectation that
someday 0W-20 would become the oil of choice. It’s
been used in many Honda models sold in Europe
and Japan since 2001 with no reported problems,
and it’s been the factory fill for all Insights and Civic
Hybrids sold in the U.S."


Well considering the requirements for an engine to run on 0w20 are no different than for one to run on 5w20, is this really surprising? Many hybrids and low power density applications are extremely well suited for a 20W lubricant and in places like England, a high VI 0w20 is likely ideal for the operating conditions.

However

That doesn't mean that the 0w20 is ideal for a higher power density application from the same manufacturer running 150Mph in Germany.

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Are you sure you're not Buick GN's cousin?

And no, I've never been on BITOG before...



Never been here, but know Mr Buick? I call doo dee on that. Sounds like the banned coming back to troll.


Buick GN is famous for his antics on AcuraZine where he's know as I Hate Cars. He's over there constantly crying about being perma banned from here and saying no one on BITOG has a clue. He's hurling the same insults over there at anyone who challenges him, just like he did here before he finally got perma banned. But over there, they only temp ban him unfortunately.

I'm sick of his "know it all attitude" displayed over there. I am not him, not by a long shot. I'm one of the few on Azine that will stand up to his "know it all" diatribes.

So rest easy, I have no use for Buick GN here or there....

and more correctly, I should say I've never posted on BITOG or been a member before 2 days ago. Have lurked for a couple of years...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Are you sure you're not Buick GN's cousin?

And no, I've never been on BITOG before...



Never been here, but know Mr Buick? I call doo dee on that. Sounds like the banned coming back to troll.


Buick GN is famous for his antics on AccuraZine where he's know as I Hate Cars. He's over there constantly crying about being perma banned from here and saying no one on BITOG has a clue. He's hurling the same insults over there at anyone who chanllenges him, just like he did here before he finally got perma banned. But over there, they only temp ban him unfortunately.

I'm sick of his "know it all attitude" displayed over there. I am not him, not by a long shot. I'm one of the few on Azine that will stand up to his "know it all" diatribes.

So rest easy, I have no use for Buick GN here or there....

and more correctly, I should say I've never posted on BITOG or been a member before 2 days ago. Have lurked for a couple of years...


All depends on your viewpoint I suppose. I liked BuickGN. Though his posts were sometimes abrasive, he called it like he saw it, and that often resulted in heated discussions. That's ultimately how he ended up banned if I remember correctly.

But his big issue was with the Holy Grail attitude that some on here had, and many still have toward the value of UOA's for contrasting oils against one another and for determining engine wear. Something he was not alone in speaking out against, claiming that tear-downs were the only real way to determine this.

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

He didn't get banned for disagreeing. Spirited discussions are some of the best things to come out of these forums. He got banned for name calling and insults.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The same Jeff Jetter that wrote that puff piece? Pushing that misinformation about 20w being used in Europe since 2001 without stating it was only for hybrids.
Theres a reliable source.

I would call this an insult.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
He didn't get banned for disagreeing. Spirited discussions are some of the best things to come out of these forums. He got banned for name calling and insults.


That was part of his discussion technique

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
He didn't get banned for disagreeing. Spirited discussions are some of the best things to come out of these forums. He got banned for name calling and insults.


That was part of his discussion technique

Yes indeed, and nothing has changed with him over on Azine

 

[antiqueshell]

Trav has the most convincing logic in this thread. He correctly points out that what he aims for is "optimal" protection, not just the "good enough" under specific operating conditions.

I agree that CAFE is basically designed for "good enough". And in the USA it might be passable if you don't make huge demands on your car, or do not have a performance or turbo charged engine.

However, even though I live in the USA, I would like to have the "CHOICE" of using oils which offer OPTIMAL protection as well and still keep my factory warranty in effect, and that means US consumers need the choices like they used to have before CAFE.

Trav, I really enjoy your posts because they are logical, well thought out, and use data to back up your position.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
He didn't get banned for disagreeing. Spirited discussions are some of the best things to come out of these forums. He got banned for name calling and insults.


That was part of his discussion technique

Yes indeed, and nothing has changed with him over on Azine

I wouldn't have expected it to either

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Trav has the most convincing logic in this thread. He correctly points out that what he aims for is "optimal" protection, not just the "good enough" under specific operating conditions.

I agree that CAFE is basically designed for "good enough". And in the USA it might be passable if you don't make huge demands on your car, or do not have a performance or turbo charged engine.

However, even though I live in the USA, I would like to have the "CHOICE" of using oils which offer OPTIMAL protection as well and still keep my factory warranty in effect, and that means US consumers need the choices like they used to have before CAFE.

Trav, I really enjoy your posts because they are logical, well thought out, and use data to back up your position.



I think Trav comes off as harsh sometimes, but I find myself more in agreement with him then not the vast majority of the time.

Keep in mind, companies like Ford are now ensuring through oil temperature monitoring that you cannot exceed the design parameters of an engine operating on a 20-weight oil. A quick look at the Mustang GT and SteveSRT8's observations of one going into oil temp induced thermal limp mode at the track is proof enough of that.

What this points out to me is that Ford is willing to concede that for all operating conditions the car might see, that 5w20 may in fact NOT be optimal. So they prevent you from operating the car outside of the safe operating range of the lubricant by employing these mechanisms within the ECM.

On the other hand, with the BOSS 302, which is designed to be tracked, they take a different approach, spec'ing 5w50 for a VERY similar engine in a very similar car.

One is limited production, the other is not.......

It would be interesting to compare the thermal shut-down parameters between the two because I would bet that they are significantly different.

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

Interesting....What oil temp will trigger limp mode on the GT, any idea?

Are you sure it's an oil temp limp mode and not a coolant temp limp mode?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Interesting....What oil temp will trigger limp mode?



Now that is INTERESTING indeed!

OVERKILL, do you have any idea about the specifics?

This issue alone makes me wish for PRE-CAFE rules.

I'm glad that Ford is playing nanny so we won't
"destroy" our engine on their "perfect for all situations oil".

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
Interesting....What oil temp will trigger limp mode on the GT, any idea?


No, though we could ask Steve, as he might know. Somebody else who would probably know would be Ben99GT, but he hasn't posted in a while... hope he's still with us

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

I've heard GT guys discuss coolant temp limp mode. Are you sure there is a limp mode based on oil temp as well?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
I've heard GT guys discuss coolant temp limp mode. Are you sure there is a limp mode based on oil temp as well?


That was the topic of the discussion IIRC. It isn't an uncommon feature either, as Nissan has widely implemented the same sort of thermal protection for their cars (with regards to oil temperature).

A neat little snippet from one of the 2013 Mustang GT reviews FWIW:

http://ca.autoblog.com/2012/03/19/2013-ford-mustang-gt-first-drive-review/

Quote:
In addition to the Track Apps, the 2013 Ford Mustang GT offers drivers a more comprehensive view of what's going on under the hood. The LCD can be configured to keep an eye on necessities like air-fuel ratio, cylinder head temperature and oil temperature – all handy for banging around your favourite road course. What's more, users can customize the amount of steering assist served up by selecting from three modes with the vehicle settings menu.


Meaning that this is clearly a monitored parameter.

 

[edhackett]

Found this:

Quote:
Here is a quote from the great Coyote engine write-up from Mustang & Fast Fords:

Consideration was given to an external oil cooler, but ultimately it was decided not to penalize all Coyote buyers for the occasional antics of a miniscule fraction of owners. Oil temperature rises precipitously when the Coyote is revved more than 4,500 rpm for extended periods, and then an external oil-to-air cooler is vital. But those conditions can only be reached on a road-racing track, so the expensive cooler was ditched and engine management strategies were used to protect the engine during hot idles. However, the mounting area for the cooler was "protected" during the 2011 Mustang's development. That makes it easier for the open-trackers among us to fit a cooler (highly recommended by Coyote engine designers), and tells you something about Ford's intentions for special editions of the Coyote-powered Mustangs.

And don't worry about the occasional open-track without an oil cooler. The engineers say the oil cools quickly as soon as you take your foot out of it, and the engine management will limit the torque output if the oil gets too hot.




Ed

 

[4ever4d]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Honestly what harm [just for the sake of discussion because this horse was beaten to death] would there be giving a choice of a 20 grade oil for winter use, and a 30 grade oil for summer use? With a graph showing the temp ranges both grades would be good for?


It creates unnecessary confusion for the vehicle owner. Why present a choice when:

1) It really doesn't matter to the engine anyway;
2) Most people don't read the owner's manual anyway;
3) Most people don't understand what an oil grade is (and think the number on the bottle is the viscosity); and,
4) The customer looks at the choices, doesn't understand the difference, and gets the feeling that the automaker is making it more difficult than necessary?

Most owners feel comfort in seeing ONE graph, ONE choice...essentially being directed what to do. Those of us who question the recommendation, or at least bandy about the reasons why a recommendation was made, are in the overwhelming minority.

And may i add do not service their own vehicles anyway, depending on the dealer to put in the correct oil for them.

 

[bubbajoe_2112]

Hmmm, still confused:

Coolant Limp Mode mentioned