GM isn't so bad!

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1996 RAV4.
140K MILES.
Timing belt.
Brake pads.
Oil/filters
Antifreeze.

That's it. And the first 90k miles were those of neglect. Not by me, BTW.

Scott
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
Olympic, I believe that rather than proving that Montana's are good vans, you have proven that careful maintenance on a small fleet by a mechanic on an owner operated fleet that knows the vehicles well makes them last a long time.

Congradulations on your fleets long life, but you get at least as much credit as GM.


I can agree with that. I know for a fact that the transmission wouldn't have made it this far if I hadn't taken steps to correct the problem. Now that I know the cause of the issue, I can take the same steps with the other vans so it never occurs in the first place.

My opinion on these vans and GM in general can be summed up like this: they build some descent vehicles, they just cheap-out in the stupidest places or overlook design flaws that keep it from being a great vehicle.

quote:

Olympic, I presume you are of Hellenic Heritage--Greek, Yassou, if you are. Have you had the intake manifold leaking problem common with the V6's?

Nope, it's just the name I chose for my company "Olympic Taxi". I use this screen name everywhere because it's easy to remember and it never seems to be taken by someone else..lol!

I have 5 of these vans, 4 have had the intake gaskets replaced. The 5th just doesn't have enough miles yet.
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All on those pathetically poorly maintained (as in, I've seen better roads in third world countries) roads in Saskatchewan! What can I say other than 'wow'.

No windshield replacements? Factory alternator, now thats amazing! Seems I am always replacing mine on my GM 3.1. Must be the older design!
 
mshu7 wrote: "So I assume you dislike all the other manufacturers of mini-vans also because I don't believe that ANYBODY makes an manual trans in a mini-van."


I don't dislike any of the manufacturers. I do dislike the fact that manual transmissions are getting very difficult to find - even in trucks.
 
quote:

Originally posted by vad:
The most of the product you listed falls either into the truck/suv or the low volume niche categories. GM gambled and dumped tons of money in the supposedly easy profit segments.
Not very wise decisions with today's gas prices.


The sales reports show that GM's new full size SUVs are flying off the showroom floors. Investing in the high-profit vehicles was and still is a wise business decision. People are still snatching them up despite gas prices. Think of it this way, if you can afford a $40 - $50k SUV, you can afford the gas, too. Now that GM is coming out with cars that people want to buy, they should be able to turn it around.

Has anyone seen the new Saturn Outlook and Aura, BTW. I've seen them in person. Holy cow! Visually, the two of them are stunning inside and out. The brown leather interior on the Aura is very appealing. If this is representative of what they're coming out with now, I don't think they'll have any problem.
 
You're just repeating the "party" line.
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Bob Lutz and Rick Wagoner bet all their chips on the gas-guzzling GMT900 SUV’s.
The statement made by Lutz that the customers buying the $40-50 SUV's don't care about gas prices is totally ridiculous!!!
April sales of the GM SUV's fell 5.9% compared to last year.
The brand new SUV's sell well simply because of the novelty factor.
Granted they are quite nicely designed vehicles as they should be considering how much money and effort GM's spent redesigning its cash cows.
How long will it last?
Not long assuming that gas stays above $3!
And this is exactly why GM says it would subsidize gas purchases for some buyers.

Sure, GM makes some great vehicles: the current Chevrolet Corvette, Cadillac CTS-V.
The newly proposed Saturns look good too.
But the vast majority of the GM's huge product range simply isn’t good enough to successfully compete with the the ever improving competition.
Add to this the UAW problems, potential strike at Delphy, shifting from the SUV's car buying trends etc, etc, etc.
 
I'm guessing by 2010 (in 3.5 years) it'll be a much better picture for GM.

From what I've read, the vehicles that are coming through the pipeline (that haven't been seen by the public, but have been seem by some auto reporters) are supposedly stunning.

I truely believe that despite all their financial problems and other issues, they are on the rebound and by 2010 their product line-up with be night & day different than what it is now.
 
This is a great post on durability in spite of the Bean-Counters. Olympic, I presume you are of Hellenic Heritage--Greek, Yassou, if you are. Have you had the intake manifold leaking problem common with the V6's?

In the Old Days last Century, The Legends of the Big 3 were as I remember them;
Chrysler had the best drivetrains and handling at speed. Ask a State Trooper, why Chrysler products were preferred with manual unpowered steering. The interiors were cheaper and less durable in general unless you got to the highend Chryslers and Imperials. Brakes were about the same on all of them pre-disc brake days. BAD at speed--lock up.
Fords were no great shakes as the engine and trans outlasted the rest of the car. The interiors were better than Chryslers, but worse than GM's.
GM products were better finished and more refined in all areas. Maybe more reliable overall and more important, the systems failed or wore out at the same time as others so you would buy a new car rather than repair it, because there was some life left in the car.

I remember in Michigan, during the mid-60's, 3 years a car would have rust perforation, need tires and brakes, and a muffler. It was economically better to buy a new car rather than fix it. Many were trading for a new Cadillac, for $1000. every year.
What was the topic again?
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quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
I think they make pretty good motors, but everthing else just seems to fall apart.

They make one fantastic V6, and two good V8 motors. Nary a good 4cyl to be found in the entire history of the company. Some so-so 4cyls (ET), and quite a few nightmares (vega
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). That will be their downfall.
 
>> Have you had the intake manifold leaking problem common with the V6's?

He said in the original post, the intake gaskets were replaced at 160k kilometers, or 100K miles. So, yes!
 
Yes, my father-in-law continues to purchace from GM. He always seems to buy when there are huge discounts like $4000.00 rebate plus another $1000.00 GM owner loyalty and then working a hard deal on top of it all. The '04 he purchaced stickerd at around $27,500.00 and he paid a little more than $21,000.00 after state taxes. Then when he trades in, he takes a real good beating though. We looked up the resale on a bunch of web sites and they don't really hold their value well. Not to mention their crash test ratings!
 
Yeah resale value sucks, like I posted earlier, a 3 year old Montana with 100,000km sells for $10k CDN at auction around here. That's near 70% depreciation in 3 years! I bought my first couple vans new because I needed to finance, but now I buy used. $10k-$2500 salvage value=$7500 and I'll still get 500,000km out of it. Hard to beat a 1.5 cent cost per km.
 
With better product & changing the perception of many consumers, I believe resale value will increase starting with their current line-up of cars ,trucks, & SUV's.
 
Hi

750,000 miles and 15 years means another GM for me.


The intro of FelPro's new LIM gasket for the 606s means I would now consider one, although I would prefer a 90 degree
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quote:

Originally posted by i:

quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
I think they make pretty good motors, but everthing else just seems to fall apart.

They make one fantastic V6, and two good V8 motors. Nary a good 4cyl to be found in the entire history of the company. Some so-so 4cyls (ET), and quite a few nightmares (vega
nono.gif
). That will be their downfall.


 -
You don't know what you're talkin' about!
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 -


Displacement: 1998cc

Assembly Site: Spring Hill, Tennessee

Configuration: Dual Overhead Camshaft (4 valves per cylinder)

Horsepower: 260

Torque: 260 lb.-ft.

Applications: Pontiac Solstice GXP,
Saturn Sky Redline, Opel GT

Features: Direct-Injection

And this is just one version of the engine.
 
Ah, the new Direct Inject Turbo Ecotec. That's a ****-of-engine there Clark.


By the way, speaking of all the GM "junk" out there, I posted this UOA from my crappy '00 Grand Am GT 3.4L V6 (ya know, the one that is so bad b/c of the intake manifold gasket, not to mention it's a ancient pushrod engine).


http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003495

I'm currently at ~105K miles. I don't think going another 100K is going to be much of a problem
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.
 
I have the 2.2l Ecotec and I'm planning on 400,000 miles. Those engines are simply great - even more when I constantly get within 2mpg of 40mpg on my trip to work. My 3,000 mile UOAs look like VOAs.

My parents have a 1998 Pontiac Montana. Besides normal maintenance (brakes, oil, etc...) - it is at 125,000 miles with NOTHING else done to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this thing made it to 200,000 miles without touching anything.

I'm a real big fan of Pontiac
smile.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by olympic:
Yeah resale value sucks,

I wrote a check to the dealer for $25.5K for my '04 GTO, new.

I now have 9100 miles on it.

I just checked KBB and the retail price of the car, used, is $25,160 in my area. NADA was comparable.

I've driven a great car for two years and its depreciated $340 bucks. What sucks about that?
 
quote:

Originally posted by CBDFrontier06:
Good thing you're not selling it in Dallas. $22,385. Private party, 9100 miles, excellent condition.

OK, so in Dallas, I've driven a nice car for two years, and it's depreciated 12% in those two years.

What sucks about that?

My accountant keeps this car on my books - I bet I would have to pay taxes on a gain if I were to sell it. Again, what sucks about the resale value?
 
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