If I ever (heaven forbid) get into a severe wreck with the Mustang, I'm considering doing that with the pieces.quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
I could go for the Volvo with the Mustang engine and trans in it.
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Yearly, I detail my neighbour's 1990 Camry in exchange for their mowing of our large yard. Eww.
I miss my 1972 Gremlin.
It's always nice to spend sometime in the junkyard. We have a huge U-Pull-It here, Harry's. While browsing the yard, you see what it takes to total a car. The Hundai section is huge and the average car is like 4-5 years old, not kidding, like 1997 and 1998 and usually has a not-worth-repairing hit. In the Honda/Toyota section, the average like a 1990 and is actually a bit smaller overall. The average VW is like a 1980-1985 Rabitt, beater '86 Jetta or some newer totaled-from-a-hit Corrado. There are about 1/2 as many VWs as any one of the Japanese brands. The BMW section is rather small with examples like 1978 320i and some rotten old 5-Series. The Mercedes section consists of one or two HULKS from the early '70s, like 1974. As far as the domestics go, the yard goes for miles and some of those cars are really in repulsive condition. An example there is like a Dyansty, Tempo or Lumina "Eurosport".
'nuff said.
PS there are a lot more junk Volvos than I expected and they are newer, like 1988-1990. I still like them for road trips and work on a few for friends. Functionally, they are a lot like VWs.
[ December 01, 2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
It's always nice to spend sometime in the junkyard. We have a huge U-Pull-It here, Harry's. While browsing the yard, you see what it takes to total a car. The Hundai section is huge and the average car is like 4-5 years old, not kidding, like 1997 and 1998 and usually has a not-worth-repairing hit. In the Honda/Toyota section, the average like a 1990 and is actually a bit smaller overall. The average VW is like a 1980-1985 Rabitt, beater '86 Jetta or some newer totaled-from-a-hit Corrado. There are about 1/2 as many VWs as any one of the Japanese brands. The BMW section is rather small with examples like 1978 320i and some rotten old 5-Series. The Mercedes section consists of one or two HULKS from the early '70s, like 1974. As far as the domestics go, the yard goes for miles and some of those cars are really in repulsive condition. An example there is like a Dyansty, Tempo or Lumina "Eurosport".
PS there are a lot more junk Volvos than I expected and they are newer, like 1988-1990. I still like them for road trips and work on a few for friends. Functionally, they are a lot like VWs.
[ December 01, 2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
Well, you're overlooking two facts there. First, you've got to take into account the number of vehicles that went into service when evaluating how many went out of service. VW isn't selling anywhere near the number of cars that Toyota and Honda.
Second, large numbers of vehicles tend to skew the market value of those vehicles downward (big supply against the demand). That, in turn, has a huge influence upon when a vehicle is deemed by the owner, the insurance company, or both, to be a "total."
I owned a Jetta myself for several years (during the 80s), and while it was a good solid car that I very much enjoyed, it was not significantly better or worse overall than a comparable Toyota or Nissan. Very different execution -- not superior or inferior.
Another question: how big are the Lexus and Infiniti sections in that junkyard???
Second, large numbers of vehicles tend to skew the market value of those vehicles downward (big supply against the demand). That, in turn, has a huge influence upon when a vehicle is deemed by the owner, the insurance company, or both, to be a "total."
I owned a Jetta myself for several years (during the 80s), and while it was a good solid car that I very much enjoyed, it was not significantly better or worse overall than a comparable Toyota or Nissan. Very different execution -- not superior or inferior.
Another question: how big are the Lexus and Infiniti sections in that junkyard???
OK, tonight I'll go unearth some actual numbers, but I've looked at multiple different summaries over the years, and my takeaway is that VW has not been near the top of the sales heap since the heyday of the Beetle.
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Aww, c'mon, isn't it self-evident that the American makers have sold thousands of vehicles for each MB sold, every year for many, many years???
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This would be another "aww, c'mon". All cars, regardless of make, respond to the degree of care that their owner gives them. Moreover, both Lex and Inf models are built to closer tolerances, get better paint than corresponding lesser-grade cars, which often does show up in the long run. An MB or Audi that is neglected is going to suffer as would any car. Likewise, there are plenty of 10+ year old LS-400s out there that you probably don't even notice because they look nowhere near ten years old. The one I mentioned above certainly didn't.
And again, it's simply not fair to hold out an 85 MB as and example and say, "see, there aren't any surviving premium Japanese cars from this year, so these must be better. . ." Back then, there weren't any Lexi, Inf, etc.
And consider this, depending upon the variables you enter, and which pricing service you use, a '90 Lex LS-400 and '90 MB 430SEL come out with about the same market value.
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How much were you wagering on that??? It was an 82 I bought used in 84. Died prematurely in a wreck in 86 or so. Physical damage not too bad, but so expensive to repair in relation to its poor retained value ===> totalled.
I'm sorry, I have to interject. You mention comfort, performance and style. Are you sure you're talking about an 84 MB 190?? Last time I checked, the 190 didn't have any of those traits.
I'm a GM guy (own two GM RWD V8 cars, both with 350s, just for the record), but I have to defend the japanese brands. A friend of mine has a 1989 Acura Legend sedan and it's got over 230k on it. Original engine and transmission. This car was not only quicker, more refined and "nicer" than just about any american sedan of the day, but it is STILL a nice car NOW. It still runs smooth and I know every time I drive it, I wind 1st gear all the way out and sometimes 2nd. And this example isn't in the minority. Most of these Legends are this reliable and still on the road.
Oh yeah, thanks so much for reminding me. When I married my wife 18 years ago (1986) she was driving a tan 1984 190E, which we held onto for about four years. What a horrifying POS moneypit that car ended up being. Yes, I know that one-case examples don't prove much, but this one was still notable. After we'd had it for about two years, on a long highway trip, the AC compressor bearing failed and smoke began pouring out from under and around the car. As I stood there in the rest area waiting for help, I had to pretend how concerned I was about it (wife hadn't given up on it yet -- but that would come soon), while actually, I was fervently hoping it would burst into flames and put us out of its misery. But no such luck -- I got to pay something like $800 to fix it. One of many similar incidents. . .quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
I don't have a ton of experience with 190Es, my Dad only had a string of 4 of them.
Maybe a 325i would be a better example. Sorry, I don't have an exact count of how many thousands and thousands of domestics are in the yard compared to the few MBZs. All I can definately tell is that all the MBZ sold after 1985 seem to be doing something other than wasting away in a scrapyard. I have an example here where my buddy needed a clutch cable in his 1990-ish Accord and it cost him $600. They "pulled the engine" to install it, whatever. In the VW, it is a $60 (retail) part and it goes in DIY ,about 10 minutes. Order an alternator for that Accord and find there were five different ones in the same model year. VW parts are so interchangable it is silly. Drive that 1990 import hard and see how it holds up.
Don't even get me started on Mitsubishi, my cousin's Ecripse is a sad, sad machine. I have to work on it for him and we both detest it.
My mechanic's brother does import repairs on the other half of the BOSCH Center. He races BMW and drives one of my old quattros. There is never any debate or question if the German cars are better.
There is no need for justification among the group of people I know who had ghastly accidents in Euro cars and were told by rescue crews "their (VW, Audi, Mercedes) had saved their life". This group includes a lovely young girl who put Dad's 5000 over a cliff and onto the roof with a car full of friends 20 years ago. She still won't drive anything other than an Audi. Contrastingly, the Buick my wife was driving at the time was featured on 60 Minutes as lacking A-pillar supports, a $15 part GM omitted. Their video showed the car gently placed onto the roof and collapsing. Contrast to the Volvo videos of cars rolling 20 times and staying intact and their stunt of stacking 10 cars on top of another. I recommend History Channel programmes on auto safety and the AutoBahn. These shows handily demonstrate how Euro cars were light years ahead of American. When I see what some of those American cars looked like and did in the 1950's compared to the Alfas, MBs and other Euro cars of the time they are grusome, so is that stack of Dyanastys and Tempos at Harry's. Where are all the UAW workers to explain? Take a 2nd look at that old Q45, it is an Official Ghetto Cruiser now.
PS I never had a compressor bearing fail or smoke come from ANY car I've owned. I drive a 19 year old 190k car every day. It looks and drives new. Everything works inc digi dash and trip computer. Only no-start was trunk light switch stuck on. Not even a rip in the seat or crack in the dash. Check my pic poster on AudiWorld.com, B6 Forum.
BTW- my Mother-in-Law's 1989 LTD really made me hate domestics. Besides all the drivability issues, ergonomics was unbelieveably bad. Gear selector was off by 3/4 of a space??? Turn signal arm took unusual effort to make it move in it's notch. Power window switches left a dent in your finger and were stacked too close together. All other guages and switches were clustered at random. Rear wagon window switch and power antennae were clustered near the bottom (?) of the dash. All seats were torn cheap vinyal. Paint was non-existant (brown, peeled). Trim was missing or loose (inc. roof rack). Ashtray had sharp sheet metal to cut the back of your hand when inserted. Door handles and locks were very primitive. It was loud and ugly. Oil pan rusted through and was porous. Wipers were even pathetic. Nothing worked except engine and trans. I don't give a crap if it had sludge or not. She has a 1996 A6q Avant now. 4 years with about $2000 in maintenance and upgrades. Everything works at 125k. Same age/miles as the LTD was when it died. Quite a vast difference in overall design and performance.
PSS- $800 for an A/C compressor??? A new one for my A4 is less than 1/2 that now. Maybe $800 installed but 20 years leter, so I dunno where you get $800 in 1986. Shouldn't it have been under warranty anyway, only 2 years old?
[ December 02, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
My mechanic's brother does import repairs on the other half of the BOSCH Center. He races BMW and drives one of my old quattros. There is never any debate or question if the German cars are better.
There is no need for justification among the group of people I know who had ghastly accidents in Euro cars and were told by rescue crews "their (VW, Audi, Mercedes) had saved their life". This group includes a lovely young girl who put Dad's 5000 over a cliff and onto the roof with a car full of friends 20 years ago. She still won't drive anything other than an Audi. Contrastingly, the Buick my wife was driving at the time was featured on 60 Minutes as lacking A-pillar supports, a $15 part GM omitted. Their video showed the car gently placed onto the roof and collapsing. Contrast to the Volvo videos of cars rolling 20 times and staying intact and their stunt of stacking 10 cars on top of another. I recommend History Channel programmes on auto safety and the AutoBahn. These shows handily demonstrate how Euro cars were light years ahead of American. When I see what some of those American cars looked like and did in the 1950's compared to the Alfas, MBs and other Euro cars of the time they are grusome, so is that stack of Dyanastys and Tempos at Harry's. Where are all the UAW workers to explain? Take a 2nd look at that old Q45, it is an Official Ghetto Cruiser now.
PS I never had a compressor bearing fail or smoke come from ANY car I've owned. I drive a 19 year old 190k car every day. It looks and drives new. Everything works inc digi dash and trip computer. Only no-start was trunk light switch stuck on. Not even a rip in the seat or crack in the dash. Check my pic poster on AudiWorld.com, B6 Forum.
BTW- my Mother-in-Law's 1989 LTD really made me hate domestics. Besides all the drivability issues, ergonomics was unbelieveably bad. Gear selector was off by 3/4 of a space??? Turn signal arm took unusual effort to make it move in it's notch. Power window switches left a dent in your finger and were stacked too close together. All other guages and switches were clustered at random. Rear wagon window switch and power antennae were clustered near the bottom (?) of the dash. All seats were torn cheap vinyal. Paint was non-existant (brown, peeled). Trim was missing or loose (inc. roof rack). Ashtray had sharp sheet metal to cut the back of your hand when inserted. Door handles and locks were very primitive. It was loud and ugly. Oil pan rusted through and was porous. Wipers were even pathetic. Nothing worked except engine and trans. I don't give a crap if it had sludge or not. She has a 1996 A6q Avant now. 4 years with about $2000 in maintenance and upgrades. Everything works at 125k. Same age/miles as the LTD was when it died. Quite a vast difference in overall design and performance.
PSS- $800 for an A/C compressor??? A new one for my A4 is less than 1/2 that now. Maybe $800 installed but 20 years leter, so I dunno where you get $800 in 1986. Shouldn't it have been under warranty anyway, only 2 years old?
[ December 02, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
The VW section is 2 the size of either Toyota or Honda and the average age is siginifigantly older. You have to show me some sales figures to imply anything more about the ratios. The yard has 1000s and 1000s more of any American brand than Mercedes. There were definately one or two burned-out early Q-chits. Those cars are complete ghetto cruisers when I see them, same with old Rexus and to some extent, Racura. You loose me with those 1990-92 "Premium" Asian cars. They show their age just like their parent brands and in some cases, worse.
I know some guys would just assume tweak some chit-box pink Probe rather than lay it to rest with all it's cousin's, not me.
PS I bet your Jetta is still on the road. Sales to registered vehicles is the ratio we are groping for, they are actually published somewhere. Who knows where though?
The one time I saw that info, I think Volvo and Saab were on top. It was a long time ago. I suspect Pontiac Lemans, Fireo, Delorean and Ford Assfire have supplanted them.
[ December 01, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
I know some guys would just assume tweak some chit-box pink Probe rather than lay it to rest with all it's cousin's, not me.
PS I bet your Jetta is still on the road. Sales to registered vehicles is the ratio we are groping for, they are actually published somewhere. Who knows where though?
[ December 01, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
Since you know 190s pretty well, you probably remember the manual backup mechanism for the sunroof? The one where you uncover the little flap in the trunk and rotate the little head about 200 times since it's geared way down for leverage. I particularly enjoyed how that failed on the two separate occasions that our sunroof mechanism decided to destroy itself (both, of course, when the *^#* thing was open...). I mention this because, oddly enough, the price you quoted for an Accord clutch ($600)was about what it cost us to have the sunroof innards replaced and re-rigged.
Your dad went through four of them? That would mean that he decided to jettison this immortal product when it was only around five years old???
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Write down your VIN. Know your car. Ordering parts is then easy, regardless.
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I generally agree that the Europeans tuned into structural safety before we did or the Japanese.
Of course, you're arguing with a guy who survived getting T-Boned on the drivers side by a 5000 lb Chevy Tahoe that was doing 40 mph, by its driver's admission, just before impact. My car? A lowly 2002 Toyota Camry. Result? I'm here, aren't I? Japanese cars were pretty shaky affairs 25-30 years ago; their makers have covered a lot more ground in that time than the Germans, Swedes, or Americans.
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So I guess you weren't among the crowd of curious onlookers in the rest area (near Columbia South Carolina) that watched the smoky, smelly results. The cost included repairing the collateral damage that was done by the small fire that started in the compressor but went out shortly after I shut it all down. The money came from my checking account -- a transaction I will not soon forget (or forgive).quote:
Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
{snip}PS I never had a compressor bearing fail or smoke come from ANY car I've owned. {snip}PSS- $800 for an A/C compressor??? {snip}so I dunno where you get $800 in 1986. Shouldn't it have been under warranty anyway, only 2 years old?
AJ, you obviously know a great deal about cars, and I accept the vast majority of what you put here as valuable info, but please don't try to tell me that either parts or labor for a Mercedes Benz are reasonably priced. Never have been and never will be.
Oh yeah, when you make frequent trips between North Carolina (where I then lived) and Florida, the wty will end on mileage, not time (and the car was well over three at the time, sorry if I wasn't clear before EDIT -- I recalled this AM that the trip was just before Christmas 87, so three yrs, not two).
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I drove an 88 Civic for over 10 years and 150k miles myself. I flogged this car mercilessly, the only to make up for its lack of torque. With normal PM and one waxing a year, that car looked new as well (I did have to repaint the plastic wheel covers as they had peeled). When I traded it (big mistakequote:
Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
{snip} Drive that 1990 import hard and see how it holds up.{snip} I drive a 19 year old 190k car every day. It looks and drives new. Everything works inc digi dash and trip computer. {snip}
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A telling comment. Could it possibly be that you've simply shut your mind and that no facts inconsistent with your beliefs will be considered, and no variation from those beliefs will be respected??? The vast bulk of what you post here is good info, IMO, but I respectfully suggest that you've got a blind spot concerning cars that don't fit your preference. Either a Civic or an LS-400 can easily be made into a POS, through neglect or deliberate effort, but then again, so can any Benz, VW, or Audi.
[ December 02, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]
I'm just trying to get a point of view out there. It's better than hearing that Hyndais or Cavaliers are so great because they are dirt-cheap. I look at CR crash and see Golf #1 and Cavalier below last. No surprises in that whole line-up, Ill type it in order sometime. I just reconditioned a 96 Civic for a friend to sell. (Audi now) It was beat and showed it, certianly not special. The thing I see with *** car owners is they claim "my car never needed nothing" but they don't look too closely at blown front-end and other wear-n-tear issues. Things I would fix/replace in a second on my Audi(and add to cost of ownership). I am ready to compare same-age cars to same-age cars of any brand. Mom's old '86 Accord is likely scrapped while our '86/'87 Audi Coupe (4000) is 110% (better than new with uprated struts and mounts). Any Eighties American cars you would like to suggest as outstanding? I rarely see any except Caprice-type mobiles. I gotta squelch this thread. I think we all understand the issues better now, me included. PS Sorry about the 190E. Yours was the 1st year of a new model. PSS Audis suck right now. I went back to an older model after my 2002 car was lemon-esque. I see real problems with the B6 car. I have another B5 Avant now, my 4th A4 and my 12th Audi. I had a Gremlin, Toyotas, Hondas, VWs and a Beemer.
PSS how can J-A-P be a banned word? It's just an abbrevation for a nationality. GER=German, ENG= English, FR=French, no real offense except in the mind of the "victim".
PSS how can J-A-P be a banned word? It's just an abbrevation for a nationality. GER=German, ENG= English, FR=French, no real offense except in the mind of the "victim".
And you've flat out got me with owning the Gremlin. I did drive a borrowed Pontiac Astre (Vega clone) for six months back in college (until its shifter cable spontaneously snapped while I was trying to cross a big intersection...). It was a massive POS, but not in the Gremlin league. Back when I was in flight school (84-85), a classmate of mine got around in a surviving Gremlin (did not pick up many chicks, go figure), until he lent it to a friend but forgot to tell him the trans selector was one notch off. Friend drove this 3-spd auto car to Michigan at highway speed in second gear, and it was never seen again as the engine exploded shortly thereafter.
Now, let's see if our friend T-Keith can tell us where all the Vegas have gone!
I sorta see your points, but Ill take 6 cavaliers for the price of 1 audi. At the price I got a cavalier for, thats about what it would take to equal the cost of a low end audi (6 cavys). Do you really think I couldnt get more miles out of 6 cavaliers than one Audi? I care about transportation not having a car nicer than my house, but thats just me.
All this talk about crash tests...they are based on hitting another car of the same model. Run an audi (cavalier, tercel, corolla, civic, etc) into an F250 on a 2 lane highway at 60mph each way. Yer gonna die, im gonna die, we'd all be dead. You wanna save money? Dont worry about how crappy it is, get yourself a Kodiak Dump truck. Compared to having $200,000 hospital bills and a messed up body for life, its cheap. I consider my Tundra a gas guzzler, but I justify it by calling it "cheap health insurance". I ALWAYS drive it when I have to take the 2 lane highways.
Im driving a 1994 Tercel with 80K around town and still running great. My grandma's 1990 tercel is a little rough but she's 82 and doesnt care to fix it because shes got a new Malibu. My dad just scrapped a 1983 nissan wagon that still started and drove ok but didnt want it around anymore. He's also going to scrap a 1992 geo prizm (corolla) because he's sick of looking at it also and doesnt want to put new CV joints on it ($120). Why get rid of 2 ok cars? Because its cheaper to buy new ones. And Im glad my mom is driving a 2001 with 38K. Thats even too many miles. Time for a new one. Oh wait, they just got a cavalier too. Cuz it was too cheap to pass up. My dads "cheap health insurance" is two Crown Vics.
All this talk about crash tests...they are based on hitting another car of the same model. Run an audi (cavalier, tercel, corolla, civic, etc) into an F250 on a 2 lane highway at 60mph each way. Yer gonna die, im gonna die, we'd all be dead. You wanna save money? Dont worry about how crappy it is, get yourself a Kodiak Dump truck. Compared to having $200,000 hospital bills and a messed up body for life, its cheap. I consider my Tundra a gas guzzler, but I justify it by calling it "cheap health insurance". I ALWAYS drive it when I have to take the 2 lane highways.
Im driving a 1994 Tercel with 80K around town and still running great. My grandma's 1990 tercel is a little rough but she's 82 and doesnt care to fix it because shes got a new Malibu. My dad just scrapped a 1983 nissan wagon that still started and drove ok but didnt want it around anymore. He's also going to scrap a 1992 geo prizm (corolla) because he's sick of looking at it also and doesnt want to put new CV joints on it ($120). Why get rid of 2 ok cars? Because its cheaper to buy new ones. And Im glad my mom is driving a 2001 with 38K. Thats even too many miles. Time for a new one. Oh wait, they just got a cavalier too. Cuz it was too cheap to pass up. My dads "cheap health insurance" is two Crown Vics.
In regards to the Grand Prix with 280k miles on it. A similar equipped Toyota Avalon with same mileage is worth 6500 bucks, yours is listed as 2200 bucks. Gee which one would I want.
"PSS how can J-A-P be a banned word? It's just an abbrevation for a nationality. GER=German, ENG= English, FR=French, no real offense except in the mind of the "victim". "
offense is ALWAYS in the eye of the "victim". the PC abbreviation is JPN.
trust me.
offense is ALWAYS in the eye of the "victim". the PC abbreviation is JPN.
trust me.
Here's a personal pet peeve of mine. Care to explain how a new car ($13,000+) is cheaper than $120 CV joints? Throwing away a car to buy a new one is ALMOST NEVER cheaper than fixing the old car.
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