Here's a pet peave of mine. Not all new cars cost $13000.
Because that $13000 car was 1/3 of that price. Yes, brand new. Its MSRP was less than $13000 too. Its worth it for all new parts and a warranty. We found a taker for the Prizm anyway.
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Because that $13000 car was 1/3 of that price. Yes, brand new. Its MSRP was less than $13000 too. Its worth it for all new parts and a warranty. We found a taker for the Prizm anyway.
Because that $13000 car was only 1/3 of that price. Brand new. Its worth it for ALL new parts and a warranty. And not having to go out in the cold weather and try to take on a task you've not done before. The old car has a rebuilt front end anyway. And we found someone to take it besides Goodwill. And whats wrong with giving an old beater to Goodwill anyway?
FL, Your system of determining when to buy now cars and what car to buy isn't much like mine, but I do admire the way you do it.
I think that might be a compliment? hehe
Im like the opposite of a car dealer...
Dealers
"Stack em deep and sell em cheap"
FL-400s
"Buy em cheap and stack em deep"
They'll get driven eventually...and only get rid of them when they are more trouble than they are worth.
We tried to trade in that aforementioned 1983 Sentra. Dealer offered $100 trade. So we kept it and drove it for another year. Now goodwill can make some $$$ off of it.
mmm beer
Im like the opposite of a car dealer...
Dealers
"Stack em deep and sell em cheap"
FL-400s
"Buy em cheap and stack em deep"
They'll get driven eventually...and only get rid of them when they are more trouble than they are worth.
We tried to trade in that aforementioned 1983 Sentra. Dealer offered $100 trade. So we kept it and drove it for another year. Now goodwill can make some $$$ off of it.
If you drove the Avalon, it would probably change your mind.
It'd depend on what I was looking for in a vehicle, wouldn't it?
The last Toyota Avalon commercials I saw all emphasized interior room, which seeing as how I don't live in my car, is something that really doesn't much matter to me.
Here's what Edmunds had to say about it, anyway. I guess if I had a speeding ticket problem this vehicle would be the cure!
Pros
Toyota reliability, powerful V-6 engine, fit and finish
Cons
Snoozeville, but still more enticing than, say, a Buick LeSabre
[ December 03, 2004, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]
the avalon may not be "exciting" but the Gran Prix is hardly exciting either.
The avalon has a 3.0L v6 that cranks (depending on year) 190+hp.
The 3.1 in the GP can only dream of having that much, probably in the 140-150 range.
other notes:
the avalon is the top of the Toyota (non-Lexus) line. The GP isn't anywhere near the top of Pontiacs' top. These are apples and oranges.
The avalon has a 3.0L v6 that cranks (depending on year) 190+hp.
The 3.1 in the GP can only dream of having that much, probably in the 140-150 range.
other notes:
the avalon is the top of the Toyota (non-Lexus) line. The GP isn't anywhere near the top of Pontiacs' top. These are apples and oranges.
It's that "new math".
To sell, or to buy?
To this buyer, that Avalon is overpriced by $4000.
I hear not great things about the Grand Am and Grand Prix in terms of crash and handling. Alero, Regatta, Aurora and cars of that ilk I find to be ill-concieved. My favourite american car is Taurus. As a cantidate for a car to compare against a Euro car, it is a good one. My uncle needed $2000 front-end work on his 2000, right out-of-warranty. Aside from that, I think it's a good car. Pretend you can buy 2 for the price of 1 "expensive" Euro car. If you could buy a 1992 Taurus and than a 1997 for the same cost as a 1992 525, maybe that would fly. It would be unfair to make direct technology and quality comparisons to autos that don't exist and make one totally fresh, but it's possible as an example. You would have to buy TWO 1992 Taurus' and store one to make a fair comparison to the ONE 1992 525. Getting carried away here.
I'd still rather be sitting in the 1992 Beamer over the 1997 Taurus.
My 1972 Gremlin was pre-5mph bumpers. After 1974, that car was ruined with those I-beam bumpers. My buddy Dan, a cop now, had a rusty blue 3-speed (with roof rack!). We would off-road and zip around. I liked it better than mom's Chevette or the Japanese examples from the time, 1979. My example was an auto, white. Bummer, but it was rust-free. There is a funny Audi-Grem tie-in. In 1979 the Grem was offered with an Audi 2.0l as an option, probally a fuel economy model. GremlinX.com is a great AMC site.
I dunno, I have always benn acutely aware of all the available car choices. Dad was a car junkie with no skills. I had to tweak his car from age 10. I got pulled over by a Jersey trooper learning to drive in his Porsche 914 at that age. In the Pine Barrens, it was no problem. He said I was driving ok but could not see me behind the wheel.
I had no budget to fix my stuff so had to improvise. Put a clutch in my 1980 Corolla alone with no manuals, age 16. Had parts leftover. The topper for my bitter car obsession was my mom working for the State Atty General doing auto consumer affairs cases. She had some really remarkable stories.
My 1972 Gremlin was pre-5mph bumpers. After 1974, that car was ruined with those I-beam bumpers. My buddy Dan, a cop now, had a rusty blue 3-speed (with roof rack!). We would off-road and zip around. I liked it better than mom's Chevette or the Japanese examples from the time, 1979. My example was an auto, white. Bummer, but it was rust-free. There is a funny Audi-Grem tie-in. In 1979 the Grem was offered with an Audi 2.0l as an option, probally a fuel economy model. GremlinX.com is a great AMC site.
I dunno, I have always benn acutely aware of all the available car choices. Dad was a car junkie with no skills. I had to tweak his car from age 10. I got pulled over by a Jersey trooper learning to drive in his Porsche 914 at that age. In the Pine Barrens, it was no problem. He said I was driving ok but could not see me behind the wheel.
I had no budget to fix my stuff so had to improvise. Put a clutch in my 1980 Corolla alone with no manuals, age 16. Had parts leftover. The topper for my bitter car obsession was my mom working for the State Atty General doing auto consumer affairs cases. She had some really remarkable stories.
That's one of the sludgemonster engines, isn't it?
The Taurus is also available with a 3.0L V6 that puts out 200HP.
But I don't know why it's your favorite. I had one for a loaner when the Contour was at the dealership for almost a month due to some back-ordered parts(which came from Germany), and it in no way could compete with the V6, 5-speed Contour in terms of handling or acceleration. (Perhaps if Ford offered the 3.0L 200HP V6 with a 5-speed that would be a different story, but they don't).
Having driven both, I would say that the Contour is a much better car to compare against a Euro car, if you aren't limiting your comparisons to cars currently in production. The Contour, with minor changes, was sold in Europe under the Mondeo name (the current Mondeo is a redesign).
As an example of just how authentically European the Contour is, the first 3 model years of the Contour even featured the "European disintegrating wiring harnesses", as found on some Volvo and Jaguar models (and maybe some BMW models too, but I was never able to confirm it).
I never knew of a single American or Japanese car to have that problem, which resulted from the incorrect application of PVC insulation for underhood wiring use.
I don't think we have the space here to recount all the American car faux-pas.
If the Euro car develops a problem, the replacment part gets re-engineered to keep it from failing again. This is better than just re-engineering it to make it cheaper.
Let me see, Germans got us to the Moon, invented the atomic bomb and even invented television and automobile. All are things that Americans hold so dear.
Let me see, Germans got us to the Moon, invented the atomic bomb and even invented television and automobile. All are things that Americans hold so dear.
How? A friend of mine has a '99 Sienna with that engine he bought used about 20,000 miles ago. He used Rotella 5W-40 in it (at my suggestion) for a couple of oil changes (since we didn't know how to tell, without pulling off a valve cover, if it has a sludge issue) and has been using Mobil 1 5W-30 since.
Same with American cars, except that the aftermarket is who usually re-engineers the replacement parts to keep them from failing again!
(To Ford's credit, they ARE getting better at re-engineering parts to make them better--case in point, the motor mounts on the Contour--the new Ford ones are much tougher than the original ones).
Considering that 1/4 of the US population is of German descent (at least for now, demographic trends are reducing that), Germans did a whole lot more than that.
We've never had a problem with it. It's only a sludge monster if you change the oil every 7.5K like it says in the non severe schedule.
The Avalon holds the road better than the outgoing Honda Accord. It's faster than most things out there. It's not a sleeper but its fast enough to suprise people. You'd be very suprised. It looks bland but I enjoy driving it. I'm 18 years old and I love it. It's not the sportiest thing but the Falken Tires I put on the Avalon turned it into something a lot sportier. It's really a great car. On roadtrips, we get 30+ mpg. Its EPA rated at 29.
Everyone has their own taste.
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