How does this have any impact on a DI engine when the fuel never touches the backs of the intake valves? Answer...it doesn't.I think I know what he meant.Short of opening the motor or paying $100 or more to a shop to do the real chemical cleaning, doing something is better than nothing , better than praying the intake valves stay clean. My Honda service manager , a friend since 1997, who has advised and saved me lots of money for years says (most shops are not really doing much for that cost). He advised me that putting a top tier fuel along with a frequent, good chemical cleaner in the fuel IS something to do without spending lots of money. He has not been wrong yet so hard to dismiss the advice.
Gasoline Direct Injection causes Chain Wear, Fuel Dilution, and Low Speed Pre-ignition (LSPI)?
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SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Thanks, you are 100000% correct.
Once again these fingers on the keys out ran the brain. Very poor wording for what I tried to say:Barry told me, short of being a mechanical engineer a chemist or having a camera in the engine they can not explain somthing they have discussed.
The cars they work on (pull heads and walnut shell clean) for folks who do not attempt do anything to prevent build up and use low grade fuel always seem to be way more fouled than the ones who use better fuel and cleaners, like he does in his. He also said there are some guys using those spray cleaners you introduce thru hoses into the intake and charging folks lots of money for what they are doing. He did not say he knew of any dealerships being guilty of this. He also said for DIY guys who want to ... those can cleaner shots are pretty effective at slowing it down. I won't find out because I can't bend over to do that stuff anymore. I did pay my local guys to do that cleaning with Berryman intake cleaner the last time I had them do some work for me. I have accepted the fact I will have to pay to have the job done right one day. Just part of preventive maintenance.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
We are at 71,000 mi now. How was it running before? After? Could you tell much by how it ran or any change in gas mileage. I will guess not much difference felt? The wife's 2018 1.5 drives and runs so well I can only guess that can shot cleaning of Berryman I had my local guy did a while back helped some or it takes a lot of build up to affect it.??? Thanks for those photos.
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SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I am ready to take a bunch of guys advice and just drive the ****ed cars and enjoy and do the routine predictive and preventive maintenance items and that is enough. No more seeking magic elixer / snake oils etc.... After the latest I read today. I am about ready to stop the obsession of seeking out and reading all the stuff about newer oils etc.... Seems everytime I find an article from an oil company its the same old same old, they are new and improved... yeah ,right. This one from Valvoline (which I know from years past has been great stuff respected and used by many guys I know who used to build their own engines.) Its a lot of talk.... about their reformulations etc to prevent intake valve build up, just like one company writes they are now formulated for cleaning engines. The next claims to be the only who eliminates LSPI while the next prevents fuel dilution.... and on and on.... so, here is the last one: https://team.valvoline.com/diy/truth-behind-carbon-buildup - then I find this fine print at the bottom! I can't get over a corporation allows (or do they encourage it? this stuff)
- The content above was submitted by a guest contributor and is for informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in this content are those of the guest contributor and do not reflect the views and opinions of Valvoline LLC.
not an oem part but one time a friend got a replacement timing chain that was missing 3 rollers... installed fine, ran great, then it absolutely destroyed the crank and rod bearings when the missing rollers generated a bunch of metal shavings and those got pumped through the whole engine! great reminder to always thoroughly check parts before installing them, no matter the brand or source.
My guess would be that those that use cheaper fuels and not as much additive/care are just la-de-da daily drivers who don't drive the cars hard and that is actually the root cause of seeing more build-up in those cars vs. the other. I'd be curious of the products like CRC intake valve cleaner actually work/help reduce the build-up over time.Thanks, you are 100000% correct.
Barry told me, short of being a mechanical engineer a chemist or having a camera in the engine they can not explain somthing they have discussed.
The cars they work on (pull heads and walnut shell clean) for folks who do not attempt do anything to prevent build up and use low grade fuel always seem to be way more fouled than the ones who use better fuel and cleaners, like he does in his. He also said there are some guys using those spray cleaners you introduce thru hoses into the intake and charging folks lots of money for what they are doing. He did not say he knew of any dealerships being guilty of this. He also said for DIY guys who want to ... those can cleaner shots are pretty effective at slowing it down. I won't find out because I can't bend over to do that stuff anymore. I did pay my local guys to do that cleaning with Berryman intake cleaner the last time I had them do some work for me. I have accepted the fact I will have to pay to have the job done right one day. Just part of preventive maintenance.
I can't really say - ran fine before and runs strong now.....*maybe* stronger? So hard with placebo/butt-dyno involved! I can see if you had a ton of the gook in there that you are effectively choking the intake off a bit but in the pics of mine it's pretty minor and mainly not the stem of the valve itself.
I have to believe that there is some truth to the quality of the oil in this - blow by coming through the PCV and onto the valve as a oily/fuel-laden mist so anything on the oil side formulation-wise may help?
My fuel is always (in this car) 93 from Costco which is Top Tier. I use Liquimoly DI Jectron each oil change. Oil has been a variety including mainly Liquimoly Molygen 5W40 and Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 with a change each of Quakerstate Ultimate Durability Euro 5W40 and Mobil 0W and 5W40. I've run LM MoS2, Ceratec, and the engine flushes (LM and HPL). I don't think any of that matters at all w/r to this issue. Now it's got HPL in there.
My belief is that blow-by and the fumes that introduces through the PCV system to the intake track are what causes the deposits to form. The NOACK etc. of the oil probably doesn't matter much or whether it's full SAPS or low SAPS or maybe it really does? So hard to say without controlled testing. Driving the car hard sometimes ("Italian Tune Up") to get the heat up probably helps more than it's given credit for. I get on the gas about anytime I drive it. I think the heavy deposits form in vehicles that are la-de-da driven around town short mileage.
without a doubt. i always find an engine wakes up and really starts running nicely after a few good spirited pulls on the highway, especially if it's been getting a lot of short trips/incomplete warmup cycles. gdi or not, the heat absolutely does get things all nice and loosened up.
I'm reading this thread and ones like it to stave off / slow the accumulation of these intake deposits. A thought just hit me.
All my driving life I've held the belief that the frequent (24 times a year) 600 mile weekends I do are good for my engine.
Do long runs also help keep this dirt down?
Sooner or later we're going to own one of these DI engines.
All my driving life I've held the belief that the frequent (24 times a year) 600 mile weekends I do are good for my engine.
Do long runs also help keep this dirt down?
Sooner or later we're going to own one of these DI engines.
Depending on if they still do it these days, that can also be the ECU. About 15 years ago, a buddy of mine had a Trailblazer and a buddy with a shop with one of the fancy Snapon real time analyzers. From a rolling start, we did a WOT pull on the highway. Snapon showed that even though it was WOT, the computer was only letting the throttle go 80%, not 100%. It took 5 WOT pulls before the computer finally went to 100%.
I ran my MS3(GDI turbo) to 158k miles with no timing chain or valve deposit issues. No oil consumed between 7,500 mile oil changes, although UOAs indicated a 10,000 mile OCI was fine.
I'm currently running two GDI turbos; no oil consumption, valve deposit, or timing chain issues. The N20 in my wife's X1 lets the sled run the quarter in 14.6 seconds- no ball of fire, but at least it averages 24 mpg. Better yet is the N55 in my 2er; mpg hovers around 27 mpg yet it runs the quarter in 13 flat. Works for me...
I'm currently running two GDI turbos; no oil consumption, valve deposit, or timing chain issues. The N20 in my wife's X1 lets the sled run the quarter in 14.6 seconds- no ball of fire, but at least it averages 24 mpg. Better yet is the N55 in my 2er; mpg hovers around 27 mpg yet it runs the quarter in 13 flat. Works for me...
If the PCV system with oil mist is to blame then wouldn't a catch can help with this issue?
Apparently not because I've seen plenty of info suggesting folks don't get diddly in their CCs during normal day to day driving. It's for track use.
I've used a PCV catch-can on two vehicles (both 400+ HP V8s), and both caught about 1 oz of oil per 1000 miles driven on the streets, some of it pretty spirited. Oil use rate (including the catch-can amount) was around 1 qt every 5000 miles.
On the small turbo DI VW 4s I'm familiar with lots of folks run them and many report zilch when they empty them. Its going to be based on how effective the PCV is in my mind CC or not.
A catch can reduce the amount of oil that makes it into the intake but by no means eliminates it. and this brings into to question their utility.
I ran a catch can for a while it caught a good bit of oil/water mix in the winter and in the summer just oil. my assumption is that in the summer high under-hood temps kept the water as vapor in the 1 atmosphere PCV stream, catch cans do not capture gasses. this same behavior will be true of oil vapors, a can will catch the larger droplets of liquid oil but finer dropletsof oil and gases from oil evaporation, smoke from blow by, fuel vapors and other gasses will run right through the catch can, when they reach the dramatically lower temperatures of the intake manifold (post PCV valve), some of this will condense back into liquid aerosols.
There have been some long term catch can users on a Mazda "Skyactive G" 2.0 GDI engine. with a catch can the intake valves did not look any cleaner than motors without catch cans. like the pictures above deposits on the the majority of the valve stayed thin, like above there is usually a blob around the stem of the valve. but on the Mazda the blob is usually lower closer to the head of the valve, I suspect this uneven accumulation is temperature related, the valve stem is cooled by the cylinder head and circulating oil, the head of the valve is also somewhat cooled by the cylinder head through contact at the valve seat but not nearly as effectively as the valve stem so the head of the valve will be hotter than the stem.
I suspect on a GDI engine this means deposits are going to collect where they are going to collect and burn off where they are going to burn off reguardless of weather you have a catch can or not. I will save my catch can money for intake manifold gaskets used toothbrushes and valve deposit cleaner.
I ran a catch can for a while it caught a good bit of oil/water mix in the winter and in the summer just oil. my assumption is that in the summer high under-hood temps kept the water as vapor in the 1 atmosphere PCV stream, catch cans do not capture gasses. this same behavior will be true of oil vapors, a can will catch the larger droplets of liquid oil but finer dropletsof oil and gases from oil evaporation, smoke from blow by, fuel vapors and other gasses will run right through the catch can, when they reach the dramatically lower temperatures of the intake manifold (post PCV valve), some of this will condense back into liquid aerosols.
There have been some long term catch can users on a Mazda "Skyactive G" 2.0 GDI engine. with a catch can the intake valves did not look any cleaner than motors without catch cans. like the pictures above deposits on the the majority of the valve stayed thin, like above there is usually a blob around the stem of the valve. but on the Mazda the blob is usually lower closer to the head of the valve, I suspect this uneven accumulation is temperature related, the valve stem is cooled by the cylinder head and circulating oil, the head of the valve is also somewhat cooled by the cylinder head through contact at the valve seat but not nearly as effectively as the valve stem so the head of the valve will be hotter than the stem.
I suspect on a GDI engine this means deposits are going to collect where they are going to collect and burn off where they are going to burn off reguardless of weather you have a catch can or not. I will save my catch can money for intake manifold gaskets used toothbrushes and valve deposit cleaner.
To add ... not all catch-cans are designed the same. IMO, the design and location of the catch-can makes a difference on how efficiently they condense and trap oil vapors.
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That’s key. Have to drive to higher rpm and load.
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