gas prices aren't high enough

[Trav]

Quote:
I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.

Why don't you just move to Europe and live there if you like this sort of Fabian mentality they are happy to oblige!

 

[Nick R]

Some of you people disgust me. Seriously you want gas to be $15 a gallon so you can act smug when people can't drive larger cars anymore? And when the price of everything shoots up because of delivery costs? You need a reality check. My paycheck wouldn't even be enough to cover my 20 mile a day COMMUTE at that price. Do you think that everyones salaries will magically go up? People like that disgust me.

Also this attitude. My family makes combined a little over 100k a year and we are FAR from rich.we are comfortable but $15a gallon gas would have us cutting hack on everything. A lot. Seriously, stop being smug and acting like you have the right to decide what other people do or drive. If you want our
economy destroyed feel free to think that way, but don't expect reasonable people to agree with you on something so outrageous.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: mva
America and Canada are very vulnerable to increases in oil prices due to many large vehicles and long travel distances.

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.


No it would not take prices such as 10 to 15 dollars per gallon for folks to change their driving habits.

I lived thru the fuel shortages during the 1970's when you could not purchase gasoline from 6 pm friday night till 6 am monday morning and there were only certain days one could buy gas depending on the last digit of their license plate.

Peoples driving habits changed drastically overnight.

 

[mva]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
My take on this discussion is why are we so ignorant to not take our energy situation into our own hands by being proactive to ween ourselves off our fragile dependence on foreign oil.

We didn't learn from the oil embargo of the 1970's. We complain about wanting the least government intervention in our lives, yet we refuse to practice self control on the issue of energy conservation. Simply driving moderate speeds is a start.

The bottom line is we will someday be forced to deal with our energy supply. Why not take charge ourselves and choose our outcome instead of being forced to do it according to others in the future?

But, it won't happen. I'm not just talking vehicles. I'm talking huge, energy wasteful homes and other buildings, inefficient food system, and on and on.

I think the OP's gist of this is that we complain, but chose not to take initiative on our own to guide our future, as evidenced by people driving 80mph alone, in bloated vehicles. This is not about people that need certain vehicles. It's not even about people that enjoy vehicles for recreation. It's about our attitude, or lack thereof.


Great post!

That is exactly what I meant to express in my posts.

 

[jcwit]

True it's an excellent post, but the masses will never accept it on their own. Its a pity but the wide majority are way to self centered.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Some of you people disgust me. Seriously you want gas to be $15 a gallon so you can act smug when people can't drive larger cars anymore? And when the price of everything shoots up because of delivery costs? You need a reality check. My paycheck wouldn't even be enough to cover my 20 mile a day COMMUTE at that price. Do you think that everyones salaries will magically go up? People like that disgust me.

Also this attitude. My family makes combined a little over 100k a year and we are FAR from rich.we are comfortable but $15a gallon gas would have us cutting hack on everything. A lot. Seriously, stop being smug and acting like you have the right to decide what other people do or drive. If you want our
economy destroyed feel free to think that way, but don't expect reasonable people to agree with you on something so outrageous.

Great post Nick. I 100% agree with you. Many people truly DO think they should be able to dictate and judge others driving habits and/or vehicles as they pertain to 'mother earth'. They've bought all the 'green' mentality and 'sustainability' propaganda to the point that they think being smug and arrogant toward those that drive larger vehicles is something to be proud of.

 

[SteveSRT8]

These are the types that worry me.

Does any of this greenie hogwash take into account running a business? A few people around here get it...the people who would be UNEMPLOYED when we close because we can't afford fuel.

A ton of stuff happens to involve fuel costs, expect everything to go crazy in price if fuel goes way up.

 

[mva]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
These are the types that worry me.

Does any of this greenie hogwash take into account running a business? A few people around here get it...the people who would be UNEMPLOYED when we close because we can't afford fuel.

A ton of stuff happens to involve fuel costs, expect everything to go crazy in price if fuel goes way up.


All the more reason to strongly consider fuel economy the next time you buy a vehicle. How many people really need a Dodge Megacab 4x4 truck?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Some of you people disgust me. Seriously you want gas to be $15 a gallon so you can act smug when people can't drive larger cars anymore? And when the price of everything shoots up because of delivery costs? You need a reality check. My paycheck wouldn't even be enough to cover my 20 mile a day COMMUTE at that price. Do you think that everyones salaries will magically go up? People like that disgust me.

Also this attitude. My family makes combined a little over 100k a year and we are FAR from rich.we are comfortable but $15a gallon gas would have us cutting hack on everything. A lot. Seriously, stop being smug and acting like you have the right to decide what other people do or drive. If you want our
economy destroyed feel free to think that way, but don't expect reasonable people to agree with you on something so outrageous.

Great post Nick. I 100% agree with you. Many people truly DO think they should be able to dictate and judge others driving habits and/or vehicles as they pertain to 'mother earth'. They've bought all the 'green' mentality and 'sustainability' propaganda to the point that they think being smug and arrogant toward those that drive larger vehicles is something to be proud of.


Agree 100%. The problem is that many just partake in self-destructive behaviors that effect their financial position, which then everyone pays for.

Dont earn a lot? Sorry, drive slower, it is smart practice to maximize dollars. The dangerous/scary thing is when people of few means think they deserve V6/V8 vehicles for vanity (notice I didnt say those who NEED it for regular use, or enough scenarios where renting is not cost effective, and note also that if you are of few means and think you need to use all kinds of fuel to tow an RV or bass boat, at the expense of retirement and similar savings, that IS an issue), and to drive 90 MPH and get poor fuel economy, and then gripe about not being able to afford to do whatever.

And then the businesses complain because people are using them less because they can't afford. Guess what, if someone decides to blow all their money driving fast and not buying widgets, it is their choice. It is the natural balance of someone's stupid unsustainable choice, not that the business is some kind of victim. It is all related to choices that everyone makes. There are only so many resources (dollars, fuel, food, etc.) that go around. Whether they are used smartly or in a lopsided manner is a very tough problem, and effects each individual, as well as society as a whole.

Im in no way for fuel going to $15, whether anybody or I can afford it or not. But some intelligence in utilization of resources (not necessarily mandated by government, but because of smart decisions) is necessary.

Make good decisions that are sustainable and aligned to your means. Great. Make stupid decisions people deserve whatever bad is coming to them.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: mva
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: mva
America and Canada are very vulnerable to increases in oil prices due to many large vehicles and long travel distances.

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.


Why do you feel like you need to control other people or change their behavior? Why would you worry about what they drive?


I am concerned because it puts the entire north american economy at risk plus oil supplies are limited and it is wasteful to drive a 7000 lb 4 door pick-up if it is not required for cargo or passengers.

If we had all have better fuel economy then our economy will not be as sensitive to high gasoline prices.


So when do you replace your gas hogs with SmartCars and mopeds?

 

[Jason8691]

Its not so much the gas prices that irritate me. Id $6 bucks a gallon and not complain if Exxon didn't get on TV and report they made $80 billion in the last quarter. Why not make only $20 billion and give us a break? But I drive less now than before. I don't NEED an F150, a Ranger would have done just fine. But the F150 gets about the same mileage (on paper anyway) as the 4x4 Ranger.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Many people truly DO think they should be able to dictate and judge others driving habits and/or vehicles as they pertain to 'mother earth'. They've bought all the 'green' mentality and 'sustainability' propaganda to the point that they think being smug and arrogant toward those that drive larger vehicles is something to be proud of.

Notice its not only car but big houses and other things including our food?
This kind of Fabian socialism is embraced mostly the poor out of seething jealousy and the desire for redistribution and educated elitist who have been convinced that their little bit of eduction gives them the right to dictate what the masses should have, they have been convinced that they know better.

Educate an idiot and all you end up with is an educated idiot.
Unfortunately its not just our best and brightest being educated its also every village idiot.
This "everybody has the right to go to college and get a corner office" mentality is fueling this nonsense.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mva
America and Canada are very vulnerable to increases in oil prices due to many large vehicles and long travel distances.

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.


No it would not take prices such as 10 to 15 dollars per gallon for folks to change their driving habits.

I lived thru the fuel shortages during the 1970's when you could not purchase gasoline from 6 pm friday night till 6 am monday morning and there were only certain days one could buy gas depending on the last digit of their license plate.

Peoples driving habits changed drastically overnight.


Yes...and the economy crashed instantly!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
These are the types that worry me.

Does any of this greenie hogwash take into account running a business? A few people around here get it...the people who would be UNEMPLOYED when we close because we can't afford fuel.

A ton of stuff happens to involve fuel costs, expect everything to go crazy in price if fuel goes way up.


No kidding. I saw the invoice from the tanker yesterday. We burned about $14,000 worth of diesel fuel. That is in ONE WEEK.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mva
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: mva
America and Canada are very vulnerable to increases in oil prices due to many large vehicles and long travel distances.

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.


Why do you feel like you need to control other people or change their behavior? Why would you worry about what they drive?


I am concerned because it puts the entire north american economy at risk plus oil supplies are limited and it is wasteful to drive a 7000 lb 4 door pick-up if it is not required for cargo or passengers.

If we had all have better fuel economy then our economy will not be as sensitive to high gasoline prices.


What about the massive amounts of oil consumed and pollution created coming out of China to produce all of these "disposable" items people buy on the cheap? The oil consumed and pollution created through their mining efforts for rare earth metals for the batteries in our laptops and "hybrid" or electric vehicles?

And then don't forget the amount of oil consumed to SHIP these products across the ocean to use so that we can enjoy these "deals" at Walmart and Harbour Freight.

Petroleum is consumed in far greater quantities running these factories and shipping these products than what we use burning it in the form of gasoline in our cars.

Raising the cost of fuel at the pump does nothing to change the issues described above and is simply a knee-jerk (and poorly thought through) attempt to curb some issue that the greenies feel is their current point of focus.

Petroleum consumption and dependence is a multi-faceted issue that cannot be dealt with by simply increasing the price that consumers pay for it at the pump.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: mva

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.


This has to be the most dumbest post of the week.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Many people truly DO think they should be able to dictate and judge others driving habits and/or vehicles as they pertain to 'mother earth'. They've bought all the 'green' mentality and 'sustainability' propaganda to the point that they think being smug and arrogant toward those that drive larger vehicles is something to be proud of.

Notice its not only car but big houses and other things including our food?
This kind of Fabian socialism is embraced mostly the poor out of seething jealousy and the desire for redistribution and educated elitist who have been convinced that their little bit of eduction gives them the right to dictate what the masses should have, they have been convinced that they know better.

Educate an idiot and all you end up with is an educated idiot.
Unfortunately its not just our best and brightest being educated its also every village idiot.
This "everybody has the right to go to college and get a corner office" mentality is fueling this nonsense.



Green and sustainability aside, there likely are optimal use profiles for folks of different means and different capacities. Im not making any statement of how they should be decided/dictated/planned/implemented... But most everything can be made to be optimal for one end goal or another.

The problem lies in that with billions of people lie billions of priorities and decision paths. Some will inherently be better than others, all people being equal or not.

The problem further lies when there is no real scenario for people to be really responsible for their actions and decisions. Make lousy ones? Go file for bankruptcy. Get EBT, etc. This drives poor decisions because a safety net, while nice and responsible for society to have, also allows for some stupid decisions to be made with less concern, IMO. These things lie on both ends of the spectrum too. Think about when Donald Trump's company or some big corporation files BK, no different than when Joe blow who bought a suburban and a rolex on a credit card files for BK.

Smarts/arrogance/green/whatever are biases, but at some point there are "proper" and "lousy" decisions that can be made. Some will have more buffer against them than others, but they all do exist in one form or another.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: jcwit

No it would not take prices such as 10 to 15 dollars per gallon for folks to change their driving habits.

I lived thru the fuel shortages during the 1970's when you could not purchase gasoline from 6 pm friday night till 6 am monday morning and there were only certain days one could buy gas depending on the last digit of their license plate.

Peoples driving habits changed drastically overnight.


Yes...and the economy crashed instantly!


Maybe it did, but the thought that the economy shouldn't crash, and dead wood not be pruned (even if it is your business), is IMO scary too. And what has happened overall to the economy since the last fuel crisis?

You can talk about $14k tanks of fuel all you want, but reality is that economy crashes, unemployment, etc., effectively the "winter" of the cycle is likely natural and necessary. It drives innovation and growth surely better than any status quo or planned requirement will. And even if it is uncomfortable, particularly to the masses (myself included), if it means renewed opportunity for all, how bad is that? Are people really worse off than in 1928?

I'm not anti-business in any way, but businesses complaining about fuel and it's effect on employment IMO is a knee-jerk for self preservation (not saying it is bad or that there is anything wrong with it). Nobody wants their business to be harmed, even if the cycle lets new opportunity flourish and new money to be made.

No agenda here, not wanting to see anyone out of business or people unemployed... I'm just not sure that the whole business will be harmed and people will lose jobs is such a bad thing in some ways. Again, what has the economy done and how much money have people collectively made since the crash after the fuel crisis that you speak of?

Then again, we've sold out so much to China that the opportunity may well go there vs here...

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mva
America and Canada are very vulnerable to increases in oil prices due to many large vehicles and long travel distances.

I would like to see gas prices at 10 to 15 $/gal or higher.

It is going to take these kind of price increases to make people change their behaviour.


No it would not take prices such as 10 to 15 dollars per gallon for folks to change their driving habits.

I lived thru the fuel shortages during the 1970's when you could not purchase gasoline from 6 pm friday night till 6 am monday morning and there were only certain days one could buy gas depending on the last digit of their license plate.

Peoples driving habits changed drastically overnight.


Yes...and the economy crashed instantly!


Sorry, no it did not crash. Yes there was a slow down, but no crash. I was working in the RV business for the Largest RV manufacturer at that time, I was in management so I had no worries, but the lines did slow down.

No Crash. I remember it very well, I was on my way home in No. Indiana coming from No. Minnesota deer camp when Pres. Nixon made the radio anouncement closing the gas stations on the weekends and only allowing fuel sales to even odd plate numbers.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Many people truly DO think they should be able to dictate and judge others driving habits and/or vehicles as they pertain to 'mother earth'. They've bought all the 'green' mentality and 'sustainability' propaganda to the point that they think being smug and arrogant toward those that drive larger vehicles is something to be proud of.

Notice its not only car but big houses and other things including our food?
This kind of Fabian socialism is embraced mostly the poor out of seething jealousy and the desire for redistribution and educated elitist who have been convinced that their little bit of eduction gives them the right to dictate what the masses should have, they have been convinced that they know better.

Educate an idiot and all you end up with is an educated idiot.
Unfortunately its not just our best and brightest being educated its also every village idiot.
This "everybody has the right to go to college and get a corner office" mentality is fueling this nonsense.


You guys almost come across on the opposite extreme of the OP's flawed suggestion and imply an equal selfishness to ignore the future and run our country into the ground. Correct me if I interpret your posts wrong.

The way I see it, we can choose to preserve the freedoms we cherish so dearly, or we can wake up one day and have them forced on us.

How we accomplish this is beyond me.