Looking at two fairly serious VOAs on Oil-Club.ru. Google Translate only goes so far, but it reveals enough to pique one's interest.
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Red Line Euro Series 5w-30
Both also apparently have esters, and this is one aspect on which I wanted to compare them. At least one person on that forum seems to be very confident that the M1 is around 5% ester, referring to a number (35) that I think I see on the VOA. Can anyone tell whether this seems reasonable?
The same number on the Red Line VOA is much higher (95) but I don't know what it means. Does it suggest the Red Line has higher ester content? If so, by how much (roughly)? And how might that mesh with the fact that the Mobil 1 has a much higher TAN (usually higher with ester content)? One forum user suggests that the esters in the Red Line are apparently very neutral; what does that mean for how they might behave in the formulation?
FTIR/oxidation/TAN & esters (M1 ESP/Red Line Euro)
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MolaKule
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Well, I can't see or extract the actual analysis, but nothing really definitive stands out but here are some comments:
1) The low NOACK is an indication that some good esters are involved
2) It used to be that the oxidation number was indicative of the presence of esters, but new additive chemistries, which are themselves esters, cloud that assumption.
As to the percentage of esters in each product, no determination can be made at this time.
But I would bet that Redline has more ester content.
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Got it. Thanks, Mola. Makes sense.
I take it the difference in TAN doesn't say much, either?
Any thoughts on the potential meaning of some esters being more neutral than others?
Yep.
Here, I'm talking about the fact that Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w-30 has a higher TAN than Red Line Euro Series 5w-30, which at least someone on Oil-club.ru says might imply that Red Line is using more neutral esters. I'm wondering what (if anything) can be discerned from that about ester content and function between the two oils.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Yep.
Here, I'm talking about the fact that Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w-30 has a higher TAN than Red Line Euro Series 5w-30, which at least someone on Oil-club.ru says might imply that Red Line is using more neutral esters. I'm wondering what (if anything) can be discerned from that about ester content and function between the two oils.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Actually, Redline has new 5W30 Euro Professional that is approved by some manufacturers, and NOACK is 9%. IMO there are two possibilities:
1. RL could not get approvals doing business as usual.
2. Phillips66 watered down RL, but still claims 100% ester.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: edyvw
[quote=d00df00d]Yep.
Here, I'm talking about the fact that Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w-30 has a higher TAN than Red Line Euro Series 5w-30, which at least someone on Oil-club.ru says might imply that Red Line is using more neutral esters.
2. Phillips66 watered down RL, but still claims 100% ester.
MolaKule
Staff member
Let me rephrase: the person seemed to be saying the esters Red Line is using in that formulation might be more neutral than average. As in, those esters might contribute less to TAN than other esters might. Is that an idea that makes sense?
MolaKule
Staff member
ok, that is starting to make sense.
Esters by themselves have an average TAN of 0.05, which is why I am suggesting the TAN numbers are most effected by the additive package.
MolaKule
Staff member
Any additive component that contains a molecule with a highly reactive atomic structure that could be broken down (disassociated, decomposed) by Hydrolysis and or heat.
Any additive chemistry that may contain a sulfur atom, for example.
TAN is most important in "Trending" an oil to determine when the level of acids might affect a metallic component or lead to further degradation of the overall lubricant.
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