I was looking at a few BMW and Mercedes forums and some people say that short drain intervals will cause more wear because the antiwear additives need time to cling to the surfaces and are washed off with "too frequent" oil changes. I'm not advocating unnecessarily short OCIs but if there's proof that clean oil will cause more wear, i want to know about it, that is new to me. Would it be because different additives are temporarily working against each other if you switch brand/viscosity? I know a few people changing their oil every 5k km (3k miles) and and while i tell them to run it longer, they all have the healthiest never opened high mileage engines i know, some well over 500k km. Educate me because i am not gullible enough to believe that without proof.
Frequent oil changes cause more wear?!
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Yes this falls under the Buffalo Theory but don't let the secret out most people can't deal with it.
Replace the words Buffalo and Brain cell with Intelligent oil molecules.
Replace the words Buffalo and Brain cell with Intelligent oil molecules.
yes, and no
is the clean oil actually clean? They usually aren't...
is the oil filter changed, and thus the galleries emptied so running without oil supply for a few seconds?
how accurate are oil analysis? is 3 ppm actually 3 ppm, or can it be 0.5 ppm, or 10 ppm or anywhere in that range?
how much old oil is mixing with new? With 10 ppm iron in the old oil, and 90% drained, the new oil starts with 1 ppm iron etc...
is the clean oil actually clean? They usually aren't...
is the oil filter changed, and thus the galleries emptied so running without oil supply for a few seconds?
how accurate are oil analysis? is 3 ppm actually 3 ppm, or can it be 0.5 ppm, or 10 ppm or anywhere in that range?
how much old oil is mixing with new? With 10 ppm iron in the old oil, and 90% drained, the new oil starts with 1 ppm iron etc...
To get you started on this repeat question:
NEw oil= increased engine wear?
I had recently read, that when you drain old oil, and add new oil you are actually causing increased enigne wear, that the new oil needs to be broken in ect, and wont have the same lubricity of hte old oil thats colected dirt and mileage. Is this true? I find that hard to belive... I alwasy...
bobistheoilguy.com
Oil Change interval & Fresh Oil Break-in period
Hello all, I don't know if this article was already posted here, I looked for it but I didn't see it anywhere... https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2007-01-4133/ I had seen on the forum (but I can not find the link) a person said that the oil had a "break-in period"...
bobistheoilguy.com
Is this true? More Freq. oil chg = more wear
Found this on another forum, is there any merit to this???? The ORIGINAL factory APPROVED oil change interval is 30,000 miles! YES 30,000 MILES!! Did you comprehend that? THE ORGINAL OIL CHANGE INTERVAL APPROVAL IS 30,000 MILES!!! Now that I have that off my chest, VW reduced the interval...
bobistheoilguy.com
Can one change oil too often?
For engine oil, I have gotten the idea from reading BITOG that the most wear occurs right after an oil change because the new oil removes the good film built up on the engine parts. So it seems like one would not want to change the oil till it went somewhat close to its worn out state and then...
bobistheoilguy.com
Is changing oil too often really bad?
OK I've been reading postings on various sites that oil "works better" as it ages. That changing oil too frequently is worse for the engine than longer drain intervals. Tell me it ain't so!
bobistheoilguy.com
The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear
A few years ago there were some treads here on how changing your oil too often caused excessive wear. The only bookmark I have is this: https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2007-01-4133/ Does anyone have the original threads on this topic they can share? TIA
bobistheoilguy.com
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Does that include fuel dilution percent comparisons? or how to create a change interval point to minimize that make believe wear? or the prefilled vs not prefilled filters(hint hint)? or just another useless silly blanket statement trying to cover all engines, all filters, all oils types/grades, all driving styles, all vehicles???
Statement was created by environmentalists wanting to save a few gallons of motor oil while you destroy your engine. Same fools attacked jippylubes 3k/3mo marketing. That worked out great for a few class action lawyers.
I haven't seen engines wear out with more frequent maintenance. Have seen plenty sludged/varnished/crudded engines that had textbook/dealer maintenance, along with worn out timing chains/tensioners/guide/vvt's.... along with the engine rattlers/knockers/clatterers, and way too many oil burners. When does your warranty expire? You will be visiting me afterwards!
Please don't maintain it. I need a new RV paid by replacing your engines and transmissions, and the wife wants to sell the beach condo and buy a beach house. You will pay for it later if you don't lease or trade in regularly.
Statement was created by environmentalists wanting to save a few gallons of motor oil while you destroy your engine. Same fools attacked jippylubes 3k/3mo marketing. That worked out great for a few class action lawyers.
I haven't seen engines wear out with more frequent maintenance. Have seen plenty sludged/varnished/crudded engines that had textbook/dealer maintenance, along with worn out timing chains/tensioners/guide/vvt's.... along with the engine rattlers/knockers/clatterers, and way too many oil burners. When does your warranty expire? You will be visiting me afterwards!
Please don't maintain it. I need a new RV paid by replacing your engines and transmissions, and the wife wants to sell the beach condo and buy a beach house. You will pay for it later if you don't lease or trade in regularly.
To equate UOA results with wear rates is absolutely and utterly incorrect. We've known for years that worn out engines with infrequent oil changes often have a lifelong history of superb UOA results.
UOA results are a tool, and are quite useful when properly used (trend monitoring, for example) (monitoring for known component failure, with a specific signature is another example)
The aircraft engine this came from had excellent UOA results, but debris in the filter. The wear rate was never seen in the UOA.
UOA results are where the "infrequent oil change is better" urban-legend comes from. It's provably wrong. I regularly post about timing and balancer chain life, low tension piston ring wear and the direct association with particulate matter, fuel dilution, wear rates and premature failure. Bottom line, oil with a heavy particulate load and/or fuel dilution markedly increases wear rates. The frequent oil change is the right way to reduce operating time under these conditions. Additionally, the proper oil choice matters too.
Look up Ford's timing chain/phaser and Honda's ring wear issues, the oil change intervals and the fuel dilution/particulate matter rates.
UOA results are a tool, and are quite useful when properly used (trend monitoring, for example) (monitoring for known component failure, with a specific signature is another example)
The aircraft engine this came from had excellent UOA results, but debris in the filter. The wear rate was never seen in the UOA.
UOA results are where the "infrequent oil change is better" urban-legend comes from. It's provably wrong. I regularly post about timing and balancer chain life, low tension piston ring wear and the direct association with particulate matter, fuel dilution, wear rates and premature failure. Bottom line, oil with a heavy particulate load and/or fuel dilution markedly increases wear rates. The frequent oil change is the right way to reduce operating time under these conditions. Additionally, the proper oil choice matters too.
Look up Ford's timing chain/phaser and Honda's ring wear issues, the oil change intervals and the fuel dilution/particulate matter rates.
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I've had nothing but positive results from 3,000, and later, 5,000 mile OCIs. I have no economic, time constraint, or ability reasons to prevent my current process. Some folks aren't lucky enough to have the money (or time) for a Jiffy Lube oil change every 5,000 miles, so they push it to, and beyond the limit, and their engines pay for it later. See GM 3.6 & 2.4 timing chains, for reference. Unfortunately for the used-car buying public, those engines normally end up with a new owner before the side effects start to reveal themselves, so, win-win, right? This is an instance where I disregard the owner's manual if it calls for OCI mileage higher than 5,000. Can't do it.
The reason i am afraid of long intervals is timing chain stretch, not very scientific but my gut feeling tells me clean oil will always be the best way to prevent it. On the engines i have, long intervals are quite usual however chain stretch and power loss always happen at some point. If you think about it, an oil change is so easy on these old cars, it only takes a few minutes, a 5L jug and a filter, about 20 to 30 bucks which is nothing compared to a tank of gas.
We were taught in college that frequent oil changes on OTR engines are detrimental at a certain point. They would have to be exceedingly short though to show any long term effects I think. The reasoning is that most oil filters hold over a half gallon and engine manufacturers don’t want you to prefill anymore. The engine has to move a lot of oil before pressure ever comes up. With that said my parents Taurus has always been serviced between 3000-3500 miles except for a rare occasion and is approaching 400k miles. The valve covers were off last week and the mechanic said it was clean enough he would eat off them.
In short, yes for normal situations. You would have go back about 15 years or so on this site to find detailed discussions. I believe there are even technical papers covering the topics, too.
The general findings were yes, the cleaning additives at initial fill remove the AW additives from the previous fill and then it takes time for the AW additives in the fresh oil to be "put down" again.
Is it a drastic increase in wear? I don't think there is any evidence to indicate that but there was plenty of evidence to support longer drain intervals "can" lead to lower wear rates.
Have any idea what the filtering efficiency of the oil filter was in this case?The aircraft engine this came from had excellent UOA results, but debris in the filter. The wear rate was never seen in the UOA.
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I remember reading about this theory years ago, in fact I’ll go so far to blame this theory on my rings getting coked up and me having to trade in my car way before I anticipated. Remember many people saying things like...your oil life monitor and manufacturer know more than you. Then five years later those same manufacturers that “knew more than everyone”, reduced their oil life monitor mileage length. And those same manufacturers that suggested 20,000 mile, 15,000 mile, oil changes, reduced them. That did happen, right? GM, VW, others. I’m not imagining that am I? I’m serious, I know GM reduced theirs and maybe VW, but there were others, right? BMW I believe? After their dealerships were filled with engines needing replacing?
Now the latest is Toyota. Their 10,000 mile oil changes that I believe are only suggested here in the US? I could be wrong about that. But there are now Toyota techs on YouTube telling you...please, please don’t do the 10,000 mile oil changes - stick to 5,000, you’ll never have a problem, maybe 6,000, but the 10,000 mile oil changes will give you trouble when you start getting up into the 100,000-120,000 mileage mark. There are techs saying that now. Oil consumption, replacing rings, replacing pistons. Just change it at 5,000 miles because most of us are in the “severe” use category and we don’t even realize it.
Now I could be wrong about all of this^^, but even still, I don’t buy that more frequent oil changes are worse on your engine than longer intervals. You want to tell me that longer intervals save the environment, save money and shorter ones are not needed? Ok, fine, but don’t tell me they’re better than short intervals. Lol.
Now the latest is Toyota. Their 10,000 mile oil changes that I believe are only suggested here in the US? I could be wrong about that. But there are now Toyota techs on YouTube telling you...please, please don’t do the 10,000 mile oil changes - stick to 5,000, you’ll never have a problem, maybe 6,000, but the 10,000 mile oil changes will give you trouble when you start getting up into the 100,000-120,000 mileage mark. There are techs saying that now. Oil consumption, replacing rings, replacing pistons. Just change it at 5,000 miles because most of us are in the “severe” use category and we don’t even realize it.
Now I could be wrong about all of this^^, but even still, I don’t buy that more frequent oil changes are worse on your engine than longer intervals. You want to tell me that longer intervals save the environment, save money and shorter ones are not needed? Ok, fine, but don’t tell me they’re better than short intervals. Lol.
Maybe filters on a big semi-truck engine might hold over half gallon (2 quarts) of oil. Most regular passenger car filters only hold 8~12 ounces.
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Of course some folks who make very long runs on both oil and engine have:
1) An advanced oil like Amsoil SS
2) An engine that does not dilute the oil
3) A bypass filtration system to remove ultra fine contamination that is not just abrasive but creates surface tension
4) Run UOA’s
Many other folks ain’t in to all that and accept 5000-7500 as the new 3K OCI
1) An advanced oil like Amsoil SS
2) An engine that does not dilute the oil
3) A bypass filtration system to remove ultra fine contamination that is not just abrasive but creates surface tension
4) Run UOA’s
Many other folks ain’t in to all that and accept 5000-7500 as the new 3K OCI
Real world results show otherwise. Time after time people have ruined their engines from neglecting oil changes, or their engine starts consuming oil because they follow a 10k mile recommendation. I have a 126,000 miles on my engine, oil changes every 5-6k and it doesn't consume a drop of oil despite being an engine that supposedly everyone else has an oil consumption problem with.
I suppose someone could go overboard and change their oil every 1k and do more harm than good but it's seems to be more of a theoretical problem than a real one.
I suppose someone could go overboard and change their oil every 1k and do more harm than good but it's seems to be more of a theoretical problem than a real one.
I believe that just like fewer showers tend to produce cleaner bodies!
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