Fram Ultra Oil Filter Failure Before 5,000 Miles

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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Well,
One thing i can say is that you guys are certainly passionate about the subject of filters.
Let me start with the "coil vs Leaf " spring debate. As I stated in a previous post, there are advantages and disadvantages to both designs according to our engineers. We use coils in our HD filters for example. Mann is currently running advertising touting the benefits of leafs, saying they help to position the cartridge in the can, they use both.
they both work.
Now, on to the problem filter. After close inspection, the leaf spring was fatigued and was the cause of the rattling. That said, we found a dent on the bottom of the filter indicating it had been dropped at some point in time. It may have happened at the store or who knows where. Difficult to see as it is under the sure grip. The cartridge in the Ultra is heavy and dropping it could cause the spring fatigue.
Mullick-
I would like to send you a case of Ultra filters in whatever part number you want for you trouble and help in getting this resolved. Just email me at [email protected] and I will ship them asap.
Sorry for the trouble.

Jay, very well done.
thumbsup2.gif

This is why I always take the filter from the box and inspect it. But, being FU's are sealed you won't know if it is damaged until after purchasing it. If a consumer finds a damaged FU filter after opening it what are they to do?


I would open the box, with the understanding that I will buy it if the filter does not show any signs of damage.

But that's just me.
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking

Mullick-
I would like to send you a case of Ultra filters in whatever part number you want for you trouble and help in getting this resolved. Just email me at [email protected] and I will ship them asap.
Sorry for the trouble.


WOW ... that's awesome!
shocked2.gif
thumbsup2.gif


PS ... my Ultra is rattling too.
lol.gif
13.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Well,
One thing i can say is that you guys are certainly passionate about the subject of filters.
Let me start with the "coil vs Leaf " spring debate. As I stated in a previous post, there are advantages and disadvantages to both designs according to our engineers. We use coils in our HD filters for example. Mann is currently running advertising touting the benefits of leafs, saying they help to position the cartridge in the can, they use both.
they both work.
Now, on to the problem filter. After close inspection, the leaf spring was fatigued and was the cause of the rattling. That said, we found a dent on the bottom of the filter indicating it had been dropped at some point in time. It may have happened at the store or who knows where. Difficult to see as it is under the sure grip. The cartridge in the Ultra is heavy and dropping it could cause the spring fatigue.
Mullick-
I would like to send you a case of Ultra filters in whatever part number you want for you trouble and help in getting this resolved. Just email me at [email protected] and I will ship them asap.
Sorry for the trouble.


I sure hope it was dented before installation. I have always been very picky about my filters. I wonder if it was in a place where the "feet" of the leaf spring was actually contacting the dent and making the spring flex farther than it should causing it to wear out. I know it's a long shot but any way we could get a picture? Maybe one of the filter media as well to see if it was still trapping dirt well? I thank you Motorking And Fram for getting to the bottom of this and actually giving an explanation as to what happened. From what i have seen this goes beyond what other companys have done in this situation. After hearing this I have no problem using fram filters again. Not because I have blind faith that whatever they tell me is correct but I now know that Fram will stick behind there products and in the unlikely event I or someone else does have a failure. I know they will do there best to make it right.

Now as a possible cause for the dent. Here is a picture of the Ice [censored] that was created in front of my garage this year due to melting snow. I was unable to park my car in here for over a month and my girlfriend had to stop parking the Ford in there because it almost snapped her exhaust off one morning. It is hard to tell from the pictures do the the glare from the snow and sun. But it was about 10" tall almost as tall as the head of my shovel when I tried to break it up. I wonder it if smacked the filter while driving over it one day.
DSC03349.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Well,
One thing i can say is that you guys are certainly passionate about the subject of filters.
Let me start with the "coil vs Leaf " spring debate. As I stated in a previous post, there are advantages and disadvantages to both designs according to our engineers. We use coils in our HD filters for example. Mann is currently running advertising touting the benefits of leafs, saying they help to position the cartridge in the can, they use both.
they both work.
Now, on to the problem filter. After close inspection, the leaf spring was fatigued and was the cause of the rattling. That said, we found a dent on the bottom of the filter indicating it had been dropped at some point in time. It may have happened at the store or who knows where. Difficult to see as it is under the sure grip. The cartridge in the Ultra is heavy and dropping it could cause the spring fatigue.
Mullick-
I would like to send you a case of Ultra filters in whatever part number you want for you trouble and help in getting this resolved. Just email me at [email protected] and I will ship them asap.
Sorry for the trouble.


I sure hope it was dented before installation. I have always been very picky about my filters. I wonder if it was in a place where the "feet" of the leaf spring was actually contacting the dent and making the spring flex farther than it should causing it to wear out. I know it's a long shot but any way we could get a picture? Maybe one of the filter media as well to see if it was still trapping dirt well? I thank you Motorking And Fram for getting to the bottom of this and actually giving an explanation as to what happened. From what i have seen this goes beyond what other companys have done in this situation. After hearing this I have no problem using fram filters again. Not because I have blind faith that whatever they tell me is correct but I now know that Fram will stick behind there products and in the unlikely event I or someone else does have a failure. I know they will do there best to make it right.

Now as a possible cause for the dent. Here is a picture of the Ice [censored] that was created in front of my garage this year due to melting snow. I was unable to park my car in here for over a month and my girlfriend had to stop parking the Ford in there because it almost snapped her exhaust off one morning. It is hard to tell from the pictures do the the glare from the snow and sun. But it was about 10" tall almost as tall as the head of my shovel when I tried to break it up. I wonder it if smacked the filter while driving over it one day.
DSC03349.jpg


You did it all wrong. You're supposed to wait for the case of filters to arrive THEN post this story along with the pics!
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001

I sure hope it was dented before installation. I have always been very picky about my filters. I wonder if it was in a place where the "feet" of the leaf spring was actually contacting the dent and making the spring flex farther than it should causing it to wear out.


Unfortunately, your video never shows the dome end of the filter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NexBveNFZjg&feature=youtu.be

I'd think that if the filter contacted the ice hump across the garage door, there would have been some kind of evidence of physical contact on the textured material on the end of the filter. Besides, does the filter hang down in such a way that it could contact that ice hump across your garage door?
 
Well I just went out and looked at the ford. It would have to contact the oil pan first before the filter. DUH! I should have know ford would have thought about something like that.

Plus the filter is situated between the front tires so it would have been well above the ice when driving over it.
 
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I agree that it would have to show some sign of impact. I swear I checked after removal for any dents but Jay did say it was hard to see and under the sure grip.

I really don't believe I dropped it. If i had I would have gone and got a new one and posted an autopsy of that filter. It's just not worth the possibility of failure to save $9. We will never know where it was dropped but I will say if the dent was that small you would think it would not effect performance. But I can see even a small dent in the right place could cause the spring to over extend on one side. With all of the activity of the leaf spring this winter it probably got worn out faster beacuase it was over extended. With that being said I do wonder if this may be the one benefit of a coil spring. Any dent it the right area (which is already a smaller area) would just make the spring tighter. Even if it was on the edge of the spring and made it go a little croocked it would still hold vertical pressure well.Now I'm not saying every company should switch to coil springs becasue if the filter gets dented it's safer. It's just too rare of a problem to warrant any design change. I could see how the leaf spring holds more even pressure on the filter since it seats so well in the hole at the bottom of the cartridge. I personally prefer leaf springs, in a non damaged filter. But say in my car where the filter is mounted vertically say a rock where to bounce up and hit it. It could dent the bottom and make the leaf spring fail like this one. This is all speculation here of course and I'm really not trying to start a leaf vs. coil spring debate as I believe both will do the job just fine.

Now a question for you Jay. I know the Extended Guard filters were marketed as only 97% efficient. When they were changed to the Ultra label they did become just as efficient as the tough Guard filters at 99% right? Or is that on a different particle size scale?
 
I think the leaf spring is a good design. The engineer(s) just need to be sure it's made from the right material, and is heavy enough to take any punishment without stressing and failing. It should be designed with a pretty decent margin of safety, as it does play an important role of keeping all the guts aligned and tight in the can.
 
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What I learned from this topic: For people who does not change oil filter on every oil change, remove oil filter to drain old oil and check for potential damage is prudent.

Back to topic, is there a picture that shows damage to the filter and the leaf spring ?
 
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Has anyone seen a company as devoted to customer satisfaction and retention as much as fram has been in the recent years. I'm not talking them up just because of this situation. Check this thread out. Jay making another appearance.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/eating...n-ohio-1261517/


What's his username on that board? Wasn't obvious to me.
 
I am really surprised to see a company in the forums actually come through and not blame anyone....and have yet another satisfied customer. This goes a long way with me and might actually look into trying one of these Fram Ultras out. With customer service like this you cant lose. Thanks Jay for taking care of a member in need. All it can do is help business IMO. And for what its worth my dad ran a regular fram orange can on his ford 4.0 for 140000 miles without ANY issues.
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Has anyone seen a company as devoted to customer satisfaction and retention as much as fram has been in the recent years. I'm not talking them up just because of this situation. Check this thread out. Jay making another appearance.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/eating...n-ohio-1261517/


What's his username on that board? Wasn't obvious to me.


Don't know if he commented. I don't want to scroll through 9 pages. lol But in the article the OP mentions his friendship with Jay is the reason he got the tour. Also he is picture with Jay farther down in the first post.
 
In many ways, this must have been a "perfect storm." In order for the spring to be damaged, the dent must have been right where one leg of the spring hits the canister. It would have increased the tension on the spring which would have either bent it outright or flexed it to the point where it lost tension sooner or later. If later, there might have been no initial rattle to detect. If you fully flex a leaf or coil spring on a suspension system and leave it that way (oil pressure would have added to the tension and the rapidity of the fatigue in the oil filter), the spring goes flat. Same thing happened here. If the dent had been in another area, it wouldn't have mattered.

Not that dents are unimportant in and of themselves. There is the potential with any dent for a can rupture. May not be likely but if you have the chance to exchange the dented filter (or look at it and choose another off the shelf), why take the chance? I have preached this here a few times after hearing some ask about dents and seeing some some be (overly IMO) dismissive. That may be true and a can dent doesn't always cause a major rupture or damage the innards of the filter, but the potential is there ... and we have a demonstration here of what can happen, don't we? Let's take it as a good lesson!
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Has anyone seen a company as devoted to customer satisfaction and retention as much as fram has been in the recent years. I'm not talking them up just because of this situation. Check this thread out. Jay making another appearance.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/eating...n-ohio-1261517/


What's his username on that board? Wasn't obvious to me.
I didn't see any posts by him, but Jay was in the OP's pictures from the Fram R&D center. Glad that the filter was just a broken leaf spring, other than some oil bypassing the media, no harm done.
 
Since Jay Buckley(Motorking), a Fram Manager, posted here I gave Fram a try. I bought 2 Castrol Syntec oil changes with Fram Tough Guard oil filters. I debated about this purchase for 2-3 weeks since Pep Boys start the sale 4-5 weeks ago, then I bought it mainly after reading Jay's comments in these discussion.

I think Tough Guard isn't bad for reasonable OCI of around 7-10k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
I can see even a small dent in the right place could cause the spring to over extend on one side. With all of the activity of the leaf spring this winter it probably got worn out faster beacuase it was over extended.



Never mind I don't know what I was thinking. For some reason I was thinking the leaf spring moved with the bypass valve. Of course it does not. which means that yes the dent would have to be in just the right place. But then that small of a dent should not affect performance. It would have to be over extended by the dent and then move off of the dent to become loose if I am correct. It's almost impossible to know without pictures. I really wish I had taken more while I had it. But I really don't remember a dent. Anyway I'm done over thinking this I guess. The problem is resolved. I will continue using them and inspect them thoroughly now. The ford has only seen about 500 miles on this new Ultra but I will do an autopsy of course and post it here next OC
 
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I believe the dent is just evidence of a fairly high drop on the end of the filter. The weight of the filter element hitting the against the leaf spring is what fatigued, deformed, or stretched the leaf spring so it no longer was providing the necessary pressure to hold the element tight. A coil spring likely would survive such a drop. Someone could test this by dropping a used and empty filter to see if it loosens up and allows the twisting action to make the noise.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Since Jay Buckley(Motorking), a Fram Manager, posted here I gave Fram a try. I bought 2 Castrol Syntec oil changes with Fram Tough Guard oil filters. I debated about this purchase for 2-3 weeks since Pep Boys start the sale 4-5 weeks ago, then I bought it mainly after reading Jay's comments in these discussion.

I think Tough Guard isn't bad for reasonable OCI of around 7-10k miles.


I was at Canadian tire the other day and I learned that the motomaster brand are just repainted frams. And the hemi filters are 5 bucks each and the 5.0 filters are 3 bucks. I figured they are perfect for doing short oci and flush outs so I bought a bunch. They are a leaf spring since they have a pic on the box of how they are built.
I'm not worried. I've never had a fram problem and now that the cost more reflects their actual worth ill buy them.
 
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