Thanks for the test, while I agree with some who say it really has some scientific parameters missing, I think some here on BITOG have become very prejudiced about Frams. They make good filters and Ultra's are excellent.
Fram is better
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MrQuackers
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Loving my HM3600 acquisition
Not only does he have it backwards, he is completely confusing convective and conductive heat transfer, as well as surface area. It shows a total lack of understanding of basic thermodynamics.
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Hot oil makes them "cooler"? Reality check, we're talking about a QUARTER of a milimeter here.
yes like placing a sponge in hot water and a metal bar in hot water, the soaked sponge temprature would dissapear faster. We tested and the metal kept the heat longer, the cardboard recieved new oil at every flow.So it never stayed long enough to heat too much, gotta go back to work, we wasted 3 hours on this, lol. I work on a wharf straddle repair shop.
Yoy have it backwards. Metal conducts heat much much faster than paper or water. About 1,100X faster iron compared to paper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Hot oil makes them "cooler"? Reality check, we're talking about a QUARTER of a milimeter here.
yes like placing a sponge in hot water and a metal bar in hot water, the soaked sponge temprature would dissapear faster. We tested and the metal kept the heat longer, the cardboard recieved new oil at every flow.So it never stayed long enough to heat too much, gotta go back to work, we wasted 3 hours on this, lol. I work on a wharf straddle repair shop.
Yoy have it backwards. Metal conducts heat much much faster than paper or water. About 1,100X faster iron compared to paper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
Let me guess, you calculated those values? I wouldn't know how you could possibly measure them under dynamic conditions and get accurate numbers.
And even if they do distort like you say, how does that matter? Oil molecules are tiny - those numbers are pretty meaningless in some type of flow scenario.
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
We tested them here at the workshop at varying temps using heat deflection tester HTD300 (made in finland) and find that the cardboard end caps when hot seal better than the metal ones which slightly distort by 0.1733 mm per 30 Degrees C. Whilst the cardboard end Fram extraguard distored 0.069 mm. That would mean oil can leak on sides of metal end caps more often.
I would love to use Fram extra guard but ther cost $15-17 here
Worst results was OSAKA filter (0.229mm), best was fram extra guard(0.069mm) and Mobil 1 (0.071mm, purolator 0.1733 mm, Valvoline (0.1844mm)
Basically cardboard is effected less by Heat then Metal. Due to the fact that the cardboard ends absorb oil which makes them havier and kept cooler.
And even if they do distort like you say, how does that matter? Oil molecules are tiny - those numbers are pretty meaningless in some type of flow scenario.
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
We tested them here at the workshop at varying temps using heat deflection tester HTD300 (made in finland) and find that the cardboard end caps when hot seal better than the metal ones which slightly distort by 0.1733 mm per 30 Degrees C. Whilst the cardboard end Fram extraguard distored 0.069 mm. That would mean oil can leak on sides of metal end caps more often.
I would love to use Fram extra guard but ther cost $15-17 here
Worst results was OSAKA filter (0.229mm), best was fram extra guard(0.069mm) and Mobil 1 (0.071mm, purolator 0.1733 mm, Valvoline (0.1844mm)
Basically cardboard is effected less by Heat then Metal. Due to the fact that the cardboard ends absorb oil which makes them havier and kept cooler.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Do the metal end caps really 'leak' though? Aren't the pleats totally encased in resin on either side, against the metal plates making leakage impossible, regardless of any warping? Isn't the bottom end butted up against a pliable and easily deformable rubber seal(ADBV), and sealed with a bypass spring on the top (if equipped). I don't see how small changes in metal end plate dimensions would cause oil to leak internally.
Exactly ... there's no place for leakage with metal end caps unless the seal between the pleats and the metal cap is bad.
Do the metal end caps really 'leak' though? Aren't the pleats totally encased in resin on either side, against the metal plates making leakage impossible, regardless of any warping? Isn't the bottom end butted up against a pliable and easily deformable rubber seal(ADBV), and sealed with a bypass spring on the top (if equipped). I don't see how small changes in metal end plate dimensions would cause oil to leak internally.
Exactly ... there's no place for leakage with metal end caps unless the seal between the pleats and the metal cap is bad.
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Thanks for the test, while I agree with some who say it really has some scientific parameters missing, I think some here on BITOG have become very prejudiced about Frams. They make good filters and Ultra's are excellent.
And the Ultra has the inferior metal end caps.
Thanks for the test, while I agree with some who say it really has some scientific parameters missing, I think some here on BITOG have become very prejudiced about Frams. They make good filters and Ultra's are excellent.
And the Ultra has the inferior metal end caps.
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
We tested them here at the workshop at varying temps using heat deflection tester HTD300 (made in finland) and find that the cardboard end caps when hot seal better than the metal ones which slightly distort by 0.1733 mm per 30 Degrees C.
So at what max temperature was this test done at? And how were the filter elements heated up?
We tested them here at the workshop at varying temps using heat deflection tester HTD300 (made in finland) and find that the cardboard end caps when hot seal better than the metal ones which slightly distort by 0.1733 mm per 30 Degrees C.
So at what max temperature was this test done at? And how were the filter elements heated up?
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
I would love to use Fram extra guard but ther cost $15-17 here
$15-17 for an orange can? Holy cripies!
I would love to use Fram extra guard but ther cost $15-17 here
$15-17 for an orange can? Holy cripies!
Fram Is the Best?
I think the Chrysler 2.7 or the 3.7 Jeep/Chrysler v6 is the best at least for us engine builders!
I used from in the 80's with no problems that i know of but i dont use them now!
I think the Chrysler 2.7 or the 3.7 Jeep/Chrysler v6 is the best at least for us engine builders!
I used from in the 80's with no problems that i know of but i dont use them now!
filters for honda??? Who makes transmissions for honda they are not so good either.
You Aussies are so funny down under. Are you sure "this" test had nothing to do with it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EJn4AU_QHJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EJn4AU_QHJM
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Nice work - thanks for posting. Fram gets blasted a lot, but if they were so bad they wouldn't be making filters for Honda.
We all know Fram CAN make a good filter, their high end offerings demonstrate that, but the OCOD isn't high end, and the high end stuff is overpriced.
Fram's "overpriced" stuff is cheaper than equivalent filters from competitors (NAPA Platinum, M1, K&N, Royal Purple, Amsoil, etc.) Much cheaper.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Nice work - thanks for posting. Fram gets blasted a lot, but if they were so bad they wouldn't be making filters for Honda.
We all know Fram CAN make a good filter, their high end offerings demonstrate that, but the OCOD isn't high end, and the high end stuff is overpriced.
Fram's "overpriced" stuff is cheaper than equivalent filters from competitors (NAPA Platinum, M1, K&N, Royal Purple, Amsoil, etc.) Much cheaper.
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