Champion Labs Ecore or Fram Extra Guard
- Thread starter BigD1
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Unless you have a sludged up engine, using a high quality synthetic filter is not only more economical but also provides better flow and filtration.
So a Fram Ultra used for three OCI's is the best of both worlds...cheap (per OCI or mileage) and better performance.
So a Fram Ultra used for three OCI's is the best of both worlds...cheap (per OCI or mileage) and better performance.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Also, is there a bypass valve?
Most applications which are non GM(with block bypass), use the previously noted nitrile combo valve (shown in Champ dissection), a combined bypass and adbv in one. The used ACD PF46E pictured above uses only a nitrile adbv.
For reference/information purposes, the newer model GM's which now use a filter integral bypass in the ACDelco ecore, GM has eschewed the use of a combo valve in favor of a standard separate poppet style dome bypass. One can reach their own conclusion as to the meaning of that decision.
Also, is there a bypass valve?
Most applications which are non GM(with block bypass), use the previously noted nitrile combo valve (shown in Champ dissection), a combined bypass and adbv in one. The used ACD PF46E pictured above uses only a nitrile adbv.
For reference/information purposes, the newer model GM's which now use a filter integral bypass in the ACDelco ecore, GM has eschewed the use of a combo valve in favor of a standard separate poppet style dome bypass. One can reach their own conclusion as to the meaning of that decision.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Have you considered using the From Ultra and leaving it on for 15,000 miles even if you dump the oil sooner? That's what I do with my vehicles most of the time.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I stock up on Ultra's when they are running the rebates.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Have you considered using the From Ultra and leaving it on for 15,000 miles even if you dump the oil sooner? That's what I do with my vehicles most of the time.
This would be the ticket--FRAM Ultras are tough (wire backed media) and not that expensive (especially for multiple OCIs). I grabbed my last ones from AAP for $7.53 out the door and since the OP states 3 OCIs at 5K that brings the price to $2.51 per OC.
Imagine that. I would have never thought to recommend a Fram ultra...why didn't I think of that like you three always do...
OP to answer your ORIGIONAL question, I wouldn't use either. I detest all filters made of plastic and cardboard.
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
You four make your opinion of the ultra well known here. Ad nauseam. A new member couldn't read for five minutes without bumping into a "let's all agree on how awesome the Fram ultra is" thread /discussion.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Big man makes personal attacks while not ever staying on topic with the OPs question (unless you are talking about the ultra...naturally)
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Nah ... instead, he would have suggested filters that have a good track record of failing. LoL
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Cheap commercial filters are cheap filters for the most part.
If you are looking for a high value filter, try a NAPA Silver or a Microgard from O'Reillys.
X2. Napa silver would get my vote.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
What exactly is an ecore? Is its element all paper too?
I mean the encaps also like the fram your comparing to? I just can't get myself to appreciate the idea of Paper caps supporting more paper.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Seems like paper and glue around a thin metal tube. They could let kindergarteners make them at art time and save on labor. Just supply the materials lol.
Lol. I'm with you. I prefer metal end caps, the way God intended oil filters to be made!
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Have you considered using the From Ultra and leaving it on for 15,000 miles even if you dump the oil sooner? That's what I do with my vehicles most of the time.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I stock up on Ultra's when they are running the rebates.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Have you considered using the From Ultra and leaving it on for 15,000 miles even if you dump the oil sooner? That's what I do with my vehicles most of the time.
This would be the ticket--FRAM Ultras are tough (wire backed media) and not that expensive (especially for multiple OCIs). I grabbed my last ones from AAP for $7.53 out the door and since the OP states 3 OCIs at 5K that brings the price to $2.51 per OC.
Imagine that. I would have never thought to recommend a Fram ultra...why didn't I think of that like you three always do...
OP to answer your ORIGIONAL question, I wouldn't use either. I detest all filters made of plastic and cardboard.
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
You four make your opinion of the ultra well known here. Ad nauseam. A new member couldn't read for five minutes without bumping into a "let's all agree on how awesome the Fram ultra is" thread /discussion.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Big man makes personal attacks while not ever staying on topic with the OPs question (unless you are talking about the ultra...naturally)
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Nah ... instead, he would have suggested filters that have a good track record of failing. LoL
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Cheap commercial filters are cheap filters for the most part.
If you are looking for a high value filter, try a NAPA Silver or a Microgard from O'Reillys.
X2. Napa silver would get my vote.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
What exactly is an ecore? Is its element all paper too?
I mean the encaps also like the fram your comparing to? I just can't get myself to appreciate the idea of Paper caps supporting more paper.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Seems like paper and glue around a thin metal tube. They could let kindergarteners make them at art time and save on labor. Just supply the materials lol.
Lol. I'm with you. I prefer metal end caps, the way God intended oil filters to be made!
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Originally Posted By: jk_636
You four make your opinion of the ultra well known here. Ad nauseam. A new member couldn't read for five minutes without bumping into a "let's all agree on how awesome the Fram ultra is" thread /discussion.
It has nothing to do with "agreeing" on how good an Ultra is--the proof is in the filter itself. I have used them for 15K+ and posted the results. I cannot wait to see your 15K filter dissections so that we have something else to discuss. Additionally, I have asked you to answer this question on multiple occasions and you never have: For the money, tell me what filter outperforms a FRAM Ultra? All I ever hear from you is deflection or crickets. Tell me and I will use it on my FX4 next--unlike you I am not afraid to put my money where my mouth is AND share the data with the BITOG world as I have from the beginning.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Big man makes personal attacks while not ever staying on topic with the OPs question (unless you are talking about the ultra...naturally)
Really? The OPs question was "If I were on a tight budget, and changed oil every 3k to 4k miles with the cheapest conventional oil I could buy, then which filter would you choose and why?" Since he did not say to limit the conversation to the subject line, since $2.51 per OCI is cheaper than any filter that I know (especially with the features of the FRAM Ultra), and since the OP would save time per OC by not changing the filter--the FRAM Ultra makes the most sense. I am being very practical, not emotional, or tied up in some tree marking contest. In my time, I have used Group 7, Pennzoil, M1, STP, Lee, WIX Gold, NAPA Gold, Motorcraft, Toyota, Nissan, Mopar, AC/Delco, Hyundai, Purolator Classic, Purolator P1, FRAM Extra Guard, and FRAM Ultra filters. I will say it again--of these filters, and for the money the FRAM Ultra nerfs them all. IF you know of another filter that will outperform the Ultra for the money--by all means, post it.
You four make your opinion of the ultra well known here. Ad nauseam. A new member couldn't read for five minutes without bumping into a "let's all agree on how awesome the Fram ultra is" thread /discussion.
It has nothing to do with "agreeing" on how good an Ultra is--the proof is in the filter itself. I have used them for 15K+ and posted the results. I cannot wait to see your 15K filter dissections so that we have something else to discuss. Additionally, I have asked you to answer this question on multiple occasions and you never have: For the money, tell me what filter outperforms a FRAM Ultra? All I ever hear from you is deflection or crickets. Tell me and I will use it on my FX4 next--unlike you I am not afraid to put my money where my mouth is AND share the data with the BITOG world as I have from the beginning.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Being that he is a newer member he may not have been aware of that option.
Agreed! Of course, JK would have never suggested it even it if made the most sense logically and economically.
Big man makes personal attacks while not ever staying on topic with the OPs question (unless you are talking about the ultra...naturally)
Really? The OPs question was "If I were on a tight budget, and changed oil every 3k to 4k miles with the cheapest conventional oil I could buy, then which filter would you choose and why?" Since he did not say to limit the conversation to the subject line, since $2.51 per OCI is cheaper than any filter that I know (especially with the features of the FRAM Ultra), and since the OP would save time per OC by not changing the filter--the FRAM Ultra makes the most sense. I am being very practical, not emotional, or tied up in some tree marking contest. In my time, I have used Group 7, Pennzoil, M1, STP, Lee, WIX Gold, NAPA Gold, Motorcraft, Toyota, Nissan, Mopar, AC/Delco, Hyundai, Purolator Classic, Purolator P1, FRAM Extra Guard, and FRAM Ultra filters. I will say it again--of these filters, and for the money the FRAM Ultra nerfs them all. IF you know of another filter that will outperform the Ultra for the money--by all means, post it.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
I'm not talking about this thread ... but in many threads you have recommended Purolators like there's never been an issue with them. Maybe when there is proof they are fixed, then it won't be so funny to see someone recommend a filter with known quality issues.
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
I'm not talking about this thread ... but in many threads you have recommended Purolators like there's never been an issue with them. Maybe when there is proof they are fixed, then it won't be so funny to see someone recommend a filter with known quality issues.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
I'm not talking about this thread ... but in many threads you have recommended Purolators like there's never been an issue with them. Maybe when there is proof they are fixed, then it won't be so funny to see someone recommend a filter with known quality issues.
You "Fram Four" consistently say I "deflect" and then ignore my response. I post filter after filter that all provided nothing more than sensational service and you conveniently dismiss them as luck. Well gentleman, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And these filters were prepared and constructed just fine. And I'm not even getting reimbursed for my work here. I do it pro bono. Purolator, royal purple, marvel mystery oil and all the other products I use don't give me anything for my time here!!!
2010Fx4: I would never run any oil for 15k miles so we will never be able to compare. My longest OCI is 8k and all the filters I use for that application are all just fine. (Royal Purple and Puro synthetic).
The 3-5k mile filters (Pureone) I use are worry free as well. You might say I have Pure oil now and pure oil later.
Stop having unrealistic performance expectations for cheap filters, use them as designed and you too can be part of the majority, the "my filters are tear free" club.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Go ahead and look at what I recommended. It wasn't either of those options and it darn sure can't be made out of materials found in a 3rd grade arts and crafts class.
I'm not talking about this thread ... but in many threads you have recommended Purolators like there's never been an issue with them. Maybe when there is proof they are fixed, then it won't be so funny to see someone recommend a filter with known quality issues.
You "Fram Four" consistently say I "deflect" and then ignore my response. I post filter after filter that all provided nothing more than sensational service and you conveniently dismiss them as luck. Well gentleman, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And these filters were prepared and constructed just fine. And I'm not even getting reimbursed for my work here. I do it pro bono. Purolator, royal purple, marvel mystery oil and all the other products I use don't give me anything for my time here!!!
2010Fx4: I would never run any oil for 15k miles so we will never be able to compare. My longest OCI is 8k and all the filters I use for that application are all just fine. (Royal Purple and Puro synthetic).
The 3-5k mile filters (Pureone) I use are worry free as well. You might say I have Pure oil now and pure oil later.
Stop having unrealistic performance expectations for cheap filters, use them as designed and you too can be part of the majority, the "my filters are tear free" club.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
I post filter after filter that all provided nothing more than sensational service and you conveniently dismiss them as luck. Well gentleman, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And these filters were prepared and constructed just fine. And I'm not even getting reimbursed for my work here. I do it pro bono. Purolator, royal purple, marvel mystery oil and all the other products I use don't give me anything for my time here!!!
OK, you go have fun with those filters.
I post filter after filter that all provided nothing more than sensational service and you conveniently dismiss them as luck. Well gentleman, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And these filters were prepared and constructed just fine. And I'm not even getting reimbursed for my work here. I do it pro bono. Purolator, royal purple, marvel mystery oil and all the other products I use don't give me anything for my time here!!!
OK, you go have fun with those filters.
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Originally Posted By: jk_636
2010Fx4: I would never run any oil for 15k miles so we will never be able to compare. My longest OCI is 8k and all the filters I use for that application are all just fine. (Royal Purple and Puro synthetic). The 3-5k mile filters (Pureone) I use are worry free as well. You might say I have Pure oil now and pure oil later.
Both of those filters contain wire-backed synthetic media and I am in full agreement that they are good for the OCIs that you suggest (in fact they are both underused, but you have said you never follow the OEMs recommendations so that makes sense). However, at the OCIs that you are running, you should be using a Classic or PureOne. I am not sure why you switched from them to these other filters and at the same time tout how good they are.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Stop having unrealistic performance expectations for cheap filters, use them as designed...
How do I have unrealistic performance expectations and please define what you mean by "cheap filters". You mean the ones that you have been stating are just fine and to keep using them? Are those the cheap filters you mean? You need to re-read Purolator's use statements and pay particular attention to the words on the other side of the "or". Both of these filters should be good for 10K on my Explorer. Would I use them for that long? Not a freakin' chance--I would not use a PSL either. Why? Because they cost as much (in many cases more) as a FRAM Ultra which is a better value because it can go to 15K and beyond.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
...you too can be part of the majority, the "my filters are tear free" club.
I am already in the "my filters are tear free" club--since I stopped using Purolator filters, I have not had a single tear. Secondly, if your longest OCI is 8K, why are you so hellbent on slamming a filter that can go past that for the people who need it? You have no horse in the extended OCI race whatsoever and yet your rationale behind all of this has zero logic other than to claim I am a paid FRAM salesman (I wish!).
I will ask one more time--what filter for the money can outperform a FRAM Ultra? (and this is the part where I say that you deflect, because to date you have NEVER answered that question). It has to be capable of a minimum of 10K and a maximum of 20K. What filter meets that need--that is readily available? I will save you the trouble--there are only 3 capable of doing that--RP, Amsoil, and a FRAM Ultra. Here is the pricing on a quick check from Amazon for all three for my FX4:
Amsoil EAO-11 = $26.58
FRAM Ultra XG2 = $7.94
Royal Purple 20-820 = $13.15
I am not sure how your calculator works, but it is a simple choice for me. Until something better comes along for the same money, I would be a fool to use a more expensive filter or buy cheaper ones and change them more often. Carry on...
2010Fx4: I would never run any oil for 15k miles so we will never be able to compare. My longest OCI is 8k and all the filters I use for that application are all just fine. (Royal Purple and Puro synthetic). The 3-5k mile filters (Pureone) I use are worry free as well. You might say I have Pure oil now and pure oil later.
Both of those filters contain wire-backed synthetic media and I am in full agreement that they are good for the OCIs that you suggest (in fact they are both underused, but you have said you never follow the OEMs recommendations so that makes sense). However, at the OCIs that you are running, you should be using a Classic or PureOne. I am not sure why you switched from them to these other filters and at the same time tout how good they are.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Stop having unrealistic performance expectations for cheap filters, use them as designed...
How do I have unrealistic performance expectations and please define what you mean by "cheap filters". You mean the ones that you have been stating are just fine and to keep using them? Are those the cheap filters you mean? You need to re-read Purolator's use statements and pay particular attention to the words on the other side of the "or". Both of these filters should be good for 10K on my Explorer. Would I use them for that long? Not a freakin' chance--I would not use a PSL either. Why? Because they cost as much (in many cases more) as a FRAM Ultra which is a better value because it can go to 15K and beyond.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
...you too can be part of the majority, the "my filters are tear free" club.
I am already in the "my filters are tear free" club--since I stopped using Purolator filters, I have not had a single tear. Secondly, if your longest OCI is 8K, why are you so hellbent on slamming a filter that can go past that for the people who need it? You have no horse in the extended OCI race whatsoever and yet your rationale behind all of this has zero logic other than to claim I am a paid FRAM salesman (I wish!).
I will ask one more time--what filter for the money can outperform a FRAM Ultra? (and this is the part where I say that you deflect, because to date you have NEVER answered that question). It has to be capable of a minimum of 10K and a maximum of 20K. What filter meets that need--that is readily available? I will save you the trouble--there are only 3 capable of doing that--RP, Amsoil, and a FRAM Ultra. Here is the pricing on a quick check from Amazon for all three for my FX4:
Amsoil EAO-11 = $26.58
FRAM Ultra XG2 = $7.94
Royal Purple 20-820 = $13.15
I am not sure how your calculator works, but it is a simple choice for me. Until something better comes along for the same money, I would be a fool to use a more expensive filter or buy cheaper ones and change them more often. Carry on...
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