Champion Labs/Fram filter

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's already gone the rated 15K ... doesn't really matter if it was 1 OCI, or 10 OCIs at 1500 miles each, unless of course it took 10 years to get 15K miles on the vehicle.

True, but lets bury my theory and start something new. If it's good for 15K let's see if it will do 30K, 45K.........I mean if everyone wants to shoot my theory down, let's do some real testing now!

Pushing a filter to twice or 3 times its rated OCI is not the same as using the same filter for 2+ OCIs to get to the rated OCI.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's already gone the rated 15K ... doesn't really matter if it was 1 OCI, or 10 OCIs at 1500 miles each, unless of course it took 10 years to get 15K miles on the vehicle.

True, but lets bury my theory and start something new. If it's good for 15K let's see if it will do 30K, 45K.........I mean if everyone wants to shoot my theory down, let's do some real testing now!

Pushing a filter to twice or 3 times its rated OCI is not the same as using the same filter for 2+ OCIs to get to the rated OCI.

And, "One filter, One OCI!" is not the same as 2+ OCIs. (Even though there is no scientific evidence that shows 2+ OCIs is safe on the same filter.)

But, why not "TRY" it anyway? If some will do 2+, let's see 3+ or more.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Pushing a filter to twice or 3 times its rated OCI is not the same as using the same filter for 2+ OCIs to get to the rated OCI.

Z06, let's approach this a different way. Honda is the only auto maker that I know of that recommends using the same filter for 2+ OCIs. If there are more, this will pertain to them also.
We know the FU is capable of being used for up to 15K miles, according to FRAM. BUT, they do not specify for 2+ OCIs. WHY NOT? Loss of sales? I think not. Probably liability.
What I want to know and see is where Honda, and any other 2+ OCIs auto makers, gathered their information, test results, analysis, etc., that shows it is ok to do 2+ OCIs on the same filter. Just show me the proof. That should be simple.
While we're at it, show WHY they (Honda) would even recommend 2+ OCIs on the same filter. I have MY theory as to why, but I would like to see their answer.
(Ok, time to get off of my soapbox.)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
And, "One filter, One OCI!" is not the same as 2+ OCIs. (Even though there is no scientific evidence that shows 2+ OCIs is safe on the same filter.)

From the filter's viewpoint it is. The filter really doesn't care if it's 3 x 5,000 OCis, 2 x 7,500 OCIs or one 15K OCI. The same amount of crud will be in the filter regardless.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Pushing a filter to twice or 3 times its rated OCI is not the same as using the same filter for 2+ OCIs to get to the rated OCI.

Z06, let's approach this a different way. Honda is the only auto maker that I know of that recommends using the same filter for 2+ OCIs. If there are more, this will pertain to them also.
We know the FU is capable of being used for up to 15K miles, according to FRAM. BUT, they do not specify for 2+ OCIs. WHY NOT? Loss of sales? I think not. Probably liability.


All FRAM says is that the FU is rated to 15K, with stipulations per Note 2. They don't say it has to be in one OCI, or multiple OCIs. 15K of use is 15K of use.

http://fram.com/products/oil_filters/fram_ultra_oil_filter

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What I want to know and see is where Honda, and any other 2+ OCIs auto makers, gathered their information, test results, analysis, etc., that shows it is ok to do 2+ OCIs on the same filter. Just show me the proof. That should be simple.
While we're at it, show WHY they (Honda) would even recommend 2+ OCIs on the same filter. I have MY theory as to why, but I would like to see their answer.
(Ok, time to get off of my soapbox.)

There are some very smart engineers at Honda. I highly doubt they would recommend using an oil filter for 2 OCIs if there were any negative reasons to do so. That to me is the "proof". Obviously, it comes down to the "use severity" of the vehicle. Honda only recommends 2 OCIs on one filter for vehicles falling in the normal use category. In severe use, they want your motto.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Ok, I will just stick to my signature, until I get another wild hair.

I need to make a new signature. Something like, "I would rather pull my own teeth with channel locks then to use a filter 2+ OCIs."
Yeah, it needs work.

 

[ZeeOSix]

To tell you the truth, I've only used a filter on 2 OCIs a few times in my life. It was on a '89 Toyota PU with the V6. It was a pain to change the oil filter. If I recall, I think the Service Manual even said it as OK to do under "normal driving conditions". Truck had 150K miles when I traded it in, and it ran like new.

I am however considering using the FU on the Altima V6 for 2 x 5,000 OCIs with Mobil Super 5000, 5w30 oil. That's still only 66% of it's rated life of a 15K OCI, and this engine is spotless inside so no worries of loading up the FU.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

If a person owns a vehicle that leaks oil like a faucet and they just keep adding oil to the engine, that's like using an oil filter multiple times, correct?
I bet the filter element would be very clean being fresh oil is always in the engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I bet the filter element would be very clean being fresh oil is always in the engine.

The cleanliness of the filter over the FCI period depends on how much crud the engine produces. Regardless if the oil is changed to fresh oil or not, that crud stays in the filter. That's why the filter doesn't really know when an OCI is done that introduces new oil ... it only knows how long it's been on and how much crud it has captured.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I bet the filter element would be very clean being fresh oil is always in the engine.

The cleanliness of the filter over the FCI period depends on how much crud the engine produces. Regardless if the oil is changed to fresh oil or not, that crud stays in the filter. That's why the filter doesn't really know when and OCI is done ... it only knows how long it's been on and how much crud it has captured.

AH HA! Gotcha!
Exactly why an oil filter should only be used for 1 OCI.
My work is done here.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I bet the filter element would be very clean being fresh oil is always in the engine.

The cleanliness of the filter over the FCI period depends on how much crud the engine produces. Regardless if the oil is changed to fresh oil or not, that crud stays in the filter. That's why the filter doesn't really know when and OCI is done ... it only knows how long it's been on and how much crud it has captured.

AH HA! Gotcha!
Exactly why an oil filter should only be used for 1 OCI.
My work is done here.

Just kiddin' with you Z06.

I understand where you are coming from. Good point.

 

[MrRPM]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I bet the filter element would be very clean being fresh oil is always in the engine.

The cleanliness of the filter over the FCI period depends on how much crud the engine produces. Regardless if the oil is changed to fresh oil or not, that crud stays in the filter. That's why the filter doesn't really know when and OCI is done ... it only knows how long it's been on and how much crud it has captured.

AH HA! Gotcha!
Exactly why an oil filter should only be used for 1 OCI.
My work is done here.

Just kiddin' with you Z06.

I understand where you are coming from. Good point.

...you were starting to scare me...

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: MrRPM
...you were starting to scare me...

I scare myself everytime I look in a mirror.

But, I still stand by my signature quote.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: MrRPM
...you were starting to scare me...

 

[Coprolite]

Z06, in some cases(e.g. diesel) where the soot agglomerates up to the size that the filter could catch, changing the oil would remove most of the soot and the agglomeration would then be combatted by fresh dispersants. In this scenario, the 2x7500 filter would end up being cleaner than the 1x15000 filter.

I left out a few assumptions but it is late...

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Z06, in some cases(e.g. diesel) where the soot agglomerates up to the size that the filter could catch, changing the oil would remove most of the soot and the agglomeration would then be combatted by fresh dispersants. In this scenario, the 2x7500 filter would end up being cleaner than the 1x15000 filter.

I left out a few assumptions but it is late...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Z06, in some cases(e.g. diesel) where the soot agglomerates up to the size that the filter could catch, changing the oil would remove most of the soot and the agglomeration would then be combatted by fresh dispersants. In this scenario, the 2x7500 filter would end up being cleaner than the 1x15000 filter.

I left out a few assumptions but it is late...

You're losing ground ...

 

[Coprolite]

I am tempted to really push for the FU in the Ecoboost UOA test just to double up once we wrap up the main data gathering and do some comparative testing. However, it really isn't that important to me to stick a burr under BOF's saddle. Especially one that will take me years to execute.

By then, he'll be running bypass and spouting "Real men change filters, not oil!"
Blue, feel free to use that tagline with proper accreditation.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Heh. Wait until you read my FU filter failure reply. That should get some attention.