Fram is better

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kalloggs40

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We tested them here at the workshop at varying temps using heat deflection tester HTD300 (made in finland) and find that the cardboard end caps when hot seal better than the metal ones which slightly distort by 0.1733 mm per 30 Degrees C. Whilst the cardboard end Fram extraguard distored 0.069 mm. That would mean oil can leak on sides of metal end caps more often.

I would love to use Fram extra guard but ther cost $15-17 here

Worst results was OSAKA filter (0.229mm), best was fram extra guard(0.069mm) and Mobil 1 (0.071mm, purolator 0.1733 mm, Valvoline (0.1844mm)

Basically cardboard is effected less by Heat then Metal. Due to the fact that the cardboard ends absorb oil which makes them havier and kept cooler.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
How many of each filter did you test to rule out identical item variation?


All filters were equivilant PH8A or Z9 here, gotta go work later
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Hot oil makes them "cooler"? Reality check, we're talking about a QUARTER of a milimeter here.


yes like placing a sponge in hot water and a metal bar in hot water, the soaked sponge temprature would dissapear faster. We tested and the metal kept the heat longer, the cardboard recieved new oil at every flow.So it never stayed long enough to heat too much, gotta go back to work, we wasted 3 hours on this, lol. I work on a wharf straddle repair shop.
 
How is this test relevant to glued metal or fiber endcaps with 50psi of oil going past them at X GPM?
 
Originally Posted By: Rand

How is this test relevant to glued metal or fiber endcaps with 50psi of oil going past them at X GPM?


mate i only did a test with temps and distortion not at that much psi, i just wanted to find out why fram would prefer cardboard ends, i mean some bentleys use cardboard ends.
Its just a small test i was bored at work.
 
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: spasm3
How many of each filter did you test to rule out identical item variation?


All filters were equivilant PH8A or Z9 here, gotta go work later

That did not come close to answering the question. Did you test multiple Frams, Purolators, Mobils, etc., in order to get average deflections? Testing one of each does not give you good data from which to draw such conclusions, especially when the Fram and Mobil were only different by 0.002 mm and your largest spread was less than one fifth of one mm.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: spasm3
How many of each filter did you test to rule out identical item variation?


All filters were equivilant PH8A or Z9 here, gotta go work later

That did not come close to answering the question. Did you test multiple Frams, Purolators, Mobils, etc., in order to get average deflections? Testing one of each does not give you good data from which to draw such conclusions, especially when the Fram and Mobil were only different by 0.002 mm and your largest spread was less than one fifth of one mm.


just tested one of each, i was just curious on cardboard end caps
 
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: spasm3
How many of each filter did you test to rule out identical item variation?


All filters were equivilant PH8A or Z9 here, gotta go work later

Mobil were only different by 0.002 mm and your largest spread was less than one fifth of one mm.


i think is mobil and fram must be almost the same, the metal end caps on the mobil 1 must be made of a better metal composition so as to not distort much
 
Nice work - thanks for posting. Fram gets blasted a lot, but if they were so bad they wouldn't be making filters for Honda.
 
I've always said it! Fram is better!! (than nothing)
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Do the metal end caps really 'leak' though? Aren't the pleats totally encased in resin on either side, against the metal plates making leakage impossible, regardless of any warping? Isn't the bottom end butted up against a pliable and easily deformable rubber seal(ADBV), and sealed with a bypass spring on the top (if equipped). I don't see how small changes in metal end plate dimensions would cause oil to leak internally. Of course paper will not exhibit heat related warping, regardless of any theories about "being cooled more". I would be more worried about that bonding glue that's attached to nothing but a layer of paper fiber on either side TBH
 
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Yep, your workshop experiment proves that Wix, Purolator, Clarcor Baldwin, Mann, Mahle, Bosch et al all got it wrong. They could have been using less expensive fiber all this time for their canister filters.

Is this a peer reviewed paper/study that can be retested and reviewed for test validity and reliability? If so I'd be interesting in seeing the published version.

Bitog member Modular V8 posted an SAE paper # that reached a different conclusion posted here, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2743925/.

And even if (big if) the experiment is valid and reliable are the results truly statistically significant to make the leap that prove your title claim?

But if nothing else, the provocative title should get lots of play.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Nice work - thanks for posting. Fram gets blasted a lot, but if they were so bad they wouldn't be making filters for Honda.
We all know Fram CAN make a good filter, their high end offerings demonstrate that, but the OCOD isn't high end, and the high end stuff is overpriced.
 
Interesting... Thanks for taking the time to test and to post.

Too bad a lot of people wanna blast everything before absorbing it all.
 
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Interesting... Thanks for taking the time to test and to post.

Too bad a lot of people wanna blast everything before absorbing it all.


When you absorb it all, would you kindly return and offer your thoughts on the implications of the OPs test. This way we can determine just how hasty and prejudiced we have been.
 
Originally Posted By: kalloggs40
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Hot oil makes them "cooler"? Reality check, we're talking about a QUARTER of a milimeter here.


yes like placing a sponge in hot water and a metal bar in hot water, the soaked sponge temprature would dissapear faster. We tested and the metal kept the heat longer, the cardboard recieved new oil at every flow.So it never stayed long enough to heat too much, gotta go back to work, we wasted 3 hours on this, lol. I work on a wharf straddle repair shop.


Yoy have it backwards. Metal conducts heat much much faster than paper or water. About 1,100X faster iron compared to paper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
 
An interesting take on a question as old as BITOG.
Fram is typically taken to task for its use of fiber end caps.
Could there be some advantage in using them?
 
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