Form a gasket fail

[demarpaint]

I search for a gasket, and use that with Permatex High-Tack. RTV sealant is a last resort, when no gasket is available or can be made.

 

[The Critic]

I search for a gasket, and use that with Permatex High-Tack. RTV sealant is a last resort, when no gasket is available or can be made.

But why? RTV is a far superior seal on applications that were designed for it.

 

[Trav]

So for some reason I'm not having good success with a lower oil pan replacement on the Altima. There is no gasket for the 2.5 so I have to use RTV. The first time around I used black. It's leaking almost all the way around and I know I coated and cleaned everything good. Wondering if I didn't wait long enough before tightening it down. Does it have to harden up a little bit first? I'm not sure what the torque would be but I'm assuming not much?

Personally RTV is my least favorite product and I avoid it as often as I can (there a few places where there is no alternative but very few). If the gasket fits this is what I would use with a coating of high tack on both sides. I cant remember ever having a properly installed gasket leak.
Look at split case engines that RTV was OE, leaks are very common after a few years. JM2C

 

[Trav]

But why? RTV is a far superior seal on applications that were designed for it.

Far from it. Like I said in the previous post look at split cases that use it OE.

 

[The Critic]

Far from it. Like I said in the previous post look at split cases that use it OE.

Never seen it. I've seen Toyota transmission cases sealed with their special pink rtv and those have never leaked IME. But most of the newer tight fitting items are sealed with anaerobic sealers, not rtv.

 

[idahopotato]

"Hard" RTV is not the problem, unless you're allowing it to get too hard before joining the surfaces. Although all my wrenching and most of my forum time is spent with diesel trucks and not Altimas, I have heard far more problems with oil pan gaskets than RTV. And if the factory did not spec a gasket for your oil pan then it's best not to use one. Surfaces have to be perfectly clean and free of any oil/grease residue and the torque has to be on point as well. From the OP's post it sounds like the exact torque values are not known so I would venture a guess that a combination of inaccurate torque values, perhaps improper torque sequence, and maybe the wrong RTV all added up to a leak. Just my .02. My oil pan still has factory grey RTV not leaking with 360k, YMMV.

How hard an RTV gets, or how hard you let the RTV get before assembly is not what I am talking about. All RTV hardens. A "non hardening" sealant like Hylomar does not harden, and is not an RTV. RTV as a gasket or gasket dressing is sometimes known to fail because they are a hardening type compound. Once (for whatever reason) the silicone bond becomes un-adhered to the the surface being sealed, it allows oil or AF or whatever to seep underneath and leak. Non hardening like Hylomar stays tacky and does not become un-adhered. Hylomar is generally used as a gasket dressing, but is also rated as a flange seal and suitable for what you are talking about here, assuming the mating parts have not been damaged/distorted.

 

[kschachn]

Can always gauge the knowledge lever of a forum when a post like this comes up. No mention of a "non-hardening" option like Hylomar, that is not RTV. Strands of escaped RTV gasket maker great for clogging oil passages, though.

Knowledge lever?

You don't say.

 

[idahopotato]

Knowledge lever?

You don't say

Right around drain level.

 

[R1jake]

use genuine Toyota FPIG (formend in place gasket) - expensive but when was the last time you saw a leaky Totota?

Its FIPG and This was going to be my exact response. It’s the absolute best period. Permatex has something similar mentioned as well a few post back called the right stuff. I’d definitely go with FIPG myself.

 

[kschachn]

Right around drain level.

Oh I see. I thought it was haste and not going back to read what you wrote. You know.

Your name is coming up a lot lately, have you noticed?

 

[idahopotato]

Oh I see. I thought it was haste and not going back to read what you wrote. You know.

aka circling the drain. you know, round and round in a downward trend

 

[kschachn]

aka circling the drain. you know, round and round in a downward trend

Time might be short.

 

[idahopotato]

Time might be short.

Might makes right.

 

[nthach]

RTV needs meticulous prep - it won’t stick if there’s oil on any surface. Don’t glop it on straight from the tube, you need a thin but uniform bead and follow OEM torque values to minimize squeeze out.

while I been guilty of subjecting Toyota FIPG and Ultra Gray to a running engine after assembly and waiting for an hour, I didn’t see any leaks.

 

[clinebarger]

How hard an RTV gets, or how hard you let the RTV get before assembly is not what I am talking about. All RTV hardens. A "non hardening" sealant like Hylomar does not harden, and is not an RTV. RTV as a gasket or gasket dressing is sometimes known to fail because they are a hardening type compound. Once (for whatever reason) the silicone bond becomes un-adhered to the the surface being sealed, it allows oil or AF or whatever to seep underneath and leak. Non hardening like Hylomar stays tacky and does not become un-adhered. Hylomar is generally used as a gasket dressing, but is also rated as a flange seal and suitable for what you are talking about here, assuming the mating parts have not been damaged/distorted.

This is certainly not an application for Hylomar, Far to many imperfections in the steel pan flange. All you have to do is look up the "Gap Fill" specifications for Hylomar M & Universal Blue. Don't get me wrong.....I have Hylomar M on my work bench at all times & use it a lot!

With good prep.....Ultra Grey works very well for this particular application.

 

[demarpaint]

But why? RTV is a far superior seal on applications that were designed for it.

I find a gasket much easier "when available." Bottom line imo is if the part in question doesn't leak after the repair, the job was done well. My 08 Liberty's transmission pan didn't use a gasket off the assembly line, but a replacement gasket was available for servicing the transmission. Using an RTV type product to reseal the transmission pan imo would have been a fools errand. @Trav and I had this discussion numerous times, and here's what I got from it. What people fail to realize is when a vehicle like my Liberty's transmission was assembled it never had ATF in it, everything was clean and pristine. Fluid getting onto the parts being assembled was not an issue. Then it ran down the line in a position where a robot applied the RTV and put the pan on it. Later the unit was filled. That wouldn't be so easy to do when servicing a transmission in a vehicle that was filled with AFT and driven. Which is why so many people have issues. Keeping certain surfaces 100% oil/fluid free and perfectly clean isn't always done right. So in my case using a gasket was the better way to go, even though it came from the factory w/o one.

Having said that in some instances the RTV product has its place, but it isn't always the best option. For me it is usually a last resort.

 

[michaelluscher]

Most Nissan service manuals I've dealt with (older VG/VQ cars
Think Villager/Quest, and the good era of Maxima's and Pathfinders

The service manuals always had a Nissan part number that'd cross to Permatex Ultra Grey

Pull up the factory service manual, and review the instructions, maybe you've missed something or got a bad piece of info (torque spec?)

http://boredmder.com/FSMs/Nissan/Altima/2006/
EM.pdf is the Engine Mechanical book, you could reseal the whole block if you wanted to

On the off chance you've distorted the pan or damaged the flange, a replacement is about $50

Dorman 264-513, tube of Ultra Grey

Give it another try, but let it dry longer and break out the torque wrench

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The parts store and the dealer told me there is no gasket so I didn't look hard enough. I should have because I just found this. Hopefully it won't be too tight it's already really close to the crossmember https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fel-Pro-Lower-Oil-Pan-Gasket-Set-for-2002-2013-Nissan-Altima-FelPro-Engine-cl/123867462678?hash=item1cd7137c16:g:2cMAAOSwyuVd0ReM&fits=Year:2006|Model:Altima|Submodel:S|Engine+-+Liter_Display:2.5L|Make:Nissan|Trim:S+Sedan+4-Door|Engine:2.5L+2488CC+152Cu.+In.+l4+GAS+DOHC+Naturally+Aspirated

That looks like the gasket for the V6, which is different. It is not the same shape as oil pans listed for your I4 Altima.

The item I linked to earlier in the thread is the same shape as your 2.5L oil pan. Be careful

 

[Mtnhaul]

Hylomar does not harden

I'm well aware of Hylomar and it is a fantastic gasket dressing. If an oil pan is moving independent of the rest of the engine then you have a completely separate issue from sealant/gasket/RTV/whatever, and using a flexible compound, if it even worked, would only be a temporary fix at best. If someone had mentioned Hylomar as a fix before exhausting all other options then I might question the relative status of the forum's "knowledge lever".

 

[idahopotato]

This is certainly not an application for Hylomar, Far to many imperfections in the steel pan flange. All you have to do is look up the "Gap Fill" specifications for Hylomar M & Universal Blue. Don't get me wrong.....I have Hylomar M on my work bench at all times & use it a lot!

With good prep.....Ultra Grey works very well for this particular application.

Was waiting for the OP or someone to point out that there certainly is supposed to be a gasket in this application. Hylomar is the only gasket dressing ever to use. RTV has virtually no use where it is superior as a gasket dress.