Ford tractor 8N oil canister converted to TP filter

[RalphPWood]

I would seriously avoid the tp oil filter. Last summer I bought a 64 galaxie that had a frantz tp oil filter installed since the 70s. When I tore the engine down for rebuild, which was all original and never touched it wasn't super dirty but the bearings were very worn out for the mileage and looked like they had a lot of debris go through them. The crankshaft even had a groove worn on the mains. I had oil change records for most of its life and it got 2000 to 2500 mile oil changes. Really doubt the TP filter did it any favors. I've torn apart much nastier and higher mileage fe engines that had better bearing using a spin in filter. I took that thing off immediately.

That frantz oil filter was installed on the inner fender and it was OBVIOUS it had been there for DECADES. However, the filter element inside didn't appear that old when I took it off and there were even spare TP rolls in the trunk when I cleaned it out. The seal for the oil filter adapter fell apart in my hands when I tried to pick it out of the adapter, that's how long it had been installed. I'm sure in the later years it was somewhat neglected, but the original owner had the car for nearly 30 years and there are many oil change records in the owners manual and still on the door jamb that show frequent oil changes. This was a circa 1964 carbureted engine with a road draft tube running the crappy oils of yester year and the original owner was born in 1911 and probably cared about the well-being of the engine, that's my guess as to why it got 2,000-2,500 mile oil changes, that was the norm for someone of that generation. Out of all the old Ford FE engines I have taken apart over the years it was the cleanest one, so I don't think it was neglected that badly. Replacing the spin on filter with the frantz did not do it any favors, that's for sure. If one wants to install a bypass filter, there's better options available these days. According to the owner's manual its first oil change was 700 miles.

My dad didnt change the oil. When the engine went bad he brought home another old car. Some were in good condition. Like a fool I put a Motor Guard on his nice 51 Pontiac. He didnt change it either. Went home years later. One cousin said the stupid California filter I put on my dads car ruined the engine. Another cousin said the kids were playing with the Motor Guard I gave him and hit it on a rock. Told my wife lets go we wont be coming back. Got in our Frantz equipped Peugeot diesel and left.

 

[RalphPWood]

Would have to see the installation instructions, but would seem strange even back in 1967-1968 that a Frantz filter would be meant to be a full-flow filter - ie, take the place of the factory spin-on filter. Think it was always designed to be a bypass filter to be used along side the factory full-flow filter. So if the full-flow spin-on was totally removed, then the oil was probably only getting partially filtered by the Frantz bypass filter.

Some people figured since the Frantz or Motor Guard cleaned the oil and the full flow filter didnt why not remove the Full flow filter No problem if the engine is clean. If the engine has been neglected it can be a problem. The Frantz or Motor Guard can easily clean the oil but only the oil can clean the engine.

 

[RalphPWood]

No such thing as running a Frantz as a full flow filter.

I dont believe I said his bearings were worn. He was a perfectionist mechanic. No way he was going to allow his bearings to be worn. The 292 big 6 had over 300.000 miles on it when I left. Most with no oil drains.

 

[RalphPWood]

A spin-on full flow filter with an efficiency of 99% @20u or better is considered high efficency. Of course they aren't going to be as high of an efficiency as a true bypass filter. Both are used for differnt purposes. If you're going to use a bypass filter with a spin-on (which is the right way to setup a bypass filter system), then using a high efficiency spin-on in conjunction with the bypass filter is the best way to go. Just using a bypass filter without any full flow filter in the system is not the ideal filtering system. Anyone making a bypass filter these days will say that - like Amsoil for instance. Using just a bypass filter only is going back to what was done 60+ years ago.

20 u is good for a full flow filter. It would be a joke for a bypass filter.

 

[RalphPWood]

You keep saying in this thread that an engine doesn't need a full-full filter because there's nothing big to catch. I keep saying you need both a full-flow and a bypass filter to have the correct setup for using a bypass filter in the system. I said if you think an engine only needs a bypass filter, then why don't engines today only come with a good bypass filter if you think that's the best way to filter oil. Then you say: "Frantz or Motor Guard or both had a Ford engineers report that said engines need both a full flow filter and a bypass filter" ... which is what I've been saying all along. Seems to be some kind of contradictions going on.


You're talking about VWs made 60 years ago. So adding even a bypass filter to those was better than what they came with from the factory. And frequent oil changes were the best way to keep the oil clean when you only have a door screen for a filter. People that didn't add better filtering or didn't do frequent oil changes wore those engines out pretty fast compared to engines today.

I didnt say all engines didnt need a full flow filter. Many engines dont need a full flow filter. 60 years ago isnt much different than now. Filters had to work harder 60 years ago.

 

[jimmyjamesndt]

OK, mine had a 3/4-16 spin on adapter for the two hoses that fit in place of the spin on filter, must have came with it? What would that have properly worked on back then? I don't know why I even bother to ask, I could care less at this point.

Frantz patented that 2 port adapter in 1982, so at some point the original owner would have installed it some time after that date, the more common single port adapters were available in the 1960's.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4402287A/en?oq=4402287

 

[FordFETruck]

Frantz patented that 2 port adapter in 1982, so at some point the original owner would have installed it some time after that date, the more common single port adapters were available in the 1960's.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4402287A/en?oq=4402287

Actually, it was the singe port now that I think of it. It's been almost 5 years since I've seen the thing. The return port came out of the filter and into the side of the oil pan. There's a note in the owner's manual about frantz tp oil filter install, around 1967.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Some people figured since the Frantz or Motor Guard cleaned the oil and the full flow filter didnt why not remove the Full flow filter No problem if the engine is clean. If the engine has been neglected it can be a problem. The Frantz or Motor Guard can easily clean the oil but only the oil can clean the engine.

They obviously didn't realize that 90% of what's in the oil goes round-and-round through the oiling system before it might get caught in the bypass filter. Just because oil looks "clean" doesn't mean there could be lots of particles that could do cause wear if they go round-and-round through the system without being filtered out. I bet nobody back then did particle counts to really know what was going on.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I dont believe I said his bearings were worn. He was a perfectionist mechanic from hell. No way he was going to allow his bearings to be worn. The 292 big 6 had over 300.000 miles on it when I left. Most with no oil drains.

How would the guy know if he never tore down the engine to verify. Engines will "still run good" with pretty worn out parts ... seen it many times. Guess if the owner thinks the engine "still runs good", then doesn't really matter how worn out it might be, lol.

 

[ZeeOSix]

20 u is good for a full flow filter. It would be a joke for a bypass filter.

Obviously ... never said or implied that a bypass filter that could only capture 20u or larger was a good thing. They are obviously very efficient, and ideally designed to be used in conjunction with a good full flow filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why are people so ignorant they think bypass filters only filter part of the oil.

Without a full flow filter, the bypass filter does "only filter part of the oil" ... typically it's around 10% of the oil volume at a time. So that means any debris that is in the oil can still go around-and-around through the oiling system many times before it might get filtered out. If you think that's a good way to filter oil, then go for it. But the best way would be to have both an efficient full flow filter and also a very high efficiency bypass filter.

If only using a bypass filter was such a good way to go on ICEs, then engines made today would only have a very high efficiency bypass oil filter on them. It would also theoretically make OCIs much longer and cut the cost of oil and maintenance on the engine. If it was such a superior way to go, then why isn't it going on now on new engine designs? Putting just a bypass filter on a new engine design wouldn't be that complicated or expensive. It could be just like a cartridge filter like used on many engines now, but instead use a super high efficiency bypass filter element that could be changed out just like a typical full flow filter cartridge is changed out now.

 

[RalphPWood]

Obviously ... never said or implied that a bypass filter that could only capture 20u or larger was a good thing. They are obviously very efficient, and ideally designed to be used in conjunction with a good full flow filter.

A bypass filter doesnt need a full flow filter to clean oil.

 

[RalphPWood]

Without a full flow filter, the bypass filter does "only filter part of the oil" ... typically it's around 10% of the oil volume at a time. So that means any debris that is in the oil can still go around-and-around through the oiling system many times before it might get filtered out. If you think that's a good way to filter oil, then go for it. But the best way would be to have both an efficient full flow filter and also a very high efficiency bypass filter.

If only using a bypass filter was such a good way to go on ICEs, then engines made today would only have a very high efficiency bypass oil filter on them. It would also theoretically make OCIs much longer and cut the cost of oil and maintenance on the engine. If it was such a superior way to go, then why isn't it going on now on new engine designs? Putting just a bypass filter on a new engine design wouldn't be that complicated or expensive. It could be just like a cartridge filter like used on many engines now, but instead use a super high efficiency bypass filter element that could be changed out just like a typical full flow filter cartridge is changed out now.

I drove about 60 miles today. My bypass filter cleaned. 100 percent of the oil several times. Thats about one quart a minute in warm weather. I dont have to take the engine apart and mike the parts to check for wear. The engine doesnt use oil and the power is good Its smooth and quiet. The Australian Jackmaster Classic is a 1 micron filter. Why would I want a particle count. I will be removing the full flow filter tomorrow because this engine doesnt need it. I doubt that any of my engines need it. The bosses 292 big 6 didnt need it. The Pontiac is a lot cleaner running engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A bypass filter doesnt need a full flow filter to clean oil.

Never said it didn't. Said it doesnt clean oil the best way when only 10% is cleaned at a time. Not the ideal way when unfiltered debris can still go through the engine and can cause wear. Not a hard conceot to grasp.

 

[jimmyjamesndt]

Get rid of the foul full flow filter! You really have to know your equipment to do this.

 

[RalphPWood]

Get rid of the foul full flow filter! You really have to know your equipment to do this.

I see one maker of reusable full flow filters have a 70 micron element and a 45 micron element. I was in a performance parts store getting a Weber carb for the 84 Subaru. As usual I mentioned the Frantz. The guy said let me show you a real filter. He put a nice looking full flow filter on the counter and opened it up. You could read a book thru the element. Looked like something for drag racing. The Frantz isnt for drag racing. Its for cleaning oil.

 

[RalphPWood]

My case tractor only has a bypass filter

The car was almost new and extremely low mileage when it was added. I have all oil change records from the era and not one was over 2500 miles, most around 2000. It had some nasty TP media in it when I took it apart.

I started using toilet paper filters in 1964 starting with a Frantz. The Motor Guard on my f250 with the 390 is over 50 years old. I dont drain oil. I probably change the toilet paper and add more make up oil than most. Take care of your filter and the clean oil will take care of your engine. I dont have engine problems except for a couple of leaky head gaskets.

 

[RalphPWood]

It must have been getting enough oil to keep it alive for all that time, the bearings looked like they had a lot of debris go through them, the wear otherwise appeared fairly normal for the mileage. That's the point I was trying to make. I have had 3 cars with Ford FE engines, this one being the lowest mileage and best maintained and it had the worst wear overall, with the tp oil filter. People can use what they want but theres better products out there these days.

I DONT THINK SO.

 

[RalphPWood]

the rod tube post of the filter canister has a tiny hole through which oil will pass. I have 4 similar canisters, and they all use the same tiny hole design.

scroll down to see a roll filter meant for a diesel.
now they want $60 for a refill. My idea is to use this canister on my Ram diesel truck in bypass mode, and a lot cheaper cost, and be just as good.
I first bought the canister, then found out they no longer make the depth bypass filters, which is sad.
https://insanediesel.com/amsoil-bypass-oil-filter-inspected-vs-insane-diesel-review/

I did a flat head Ford V8 canister filter for my Ford diesel tractor. I bypassed the Ford orifice by putting a pipe plug in the outlet and making a new out port with a self tapping hollow bolt. Put a 1/16 inch orifice at the inlet.

 

[RalphPWood]

I am running a full flow, 20 year old Fram HP1, I looked back in the search, 40-50 microns, I don't worry one bit, its there to get the big stuff, the Frantz made the oil look like it was poured out of the bottle, 72' mustang old school 351c.

I removed the full flow filter today. Ran into a problem. Didnt have a good gasket for the converter. I remembered a Fram I picked up in the Auto Zone parking lot. It had a good gasket that fit. One thing I like about the Jackmaster Classic. With the air tank valve in the top I can open it when the filter is still hot. The air comes in and lets the filter drain. I can open the lid and check whats on top of the paper and put the lid back on.