First oil change on small engine.

[Bror Jace]

boraticus, I think the issue is with the words you use in your post: "necessary" and "required." Those two terms mean different things to different people. "Required," to me, means the minimum ... and I usually aim higher than that.

Now, look at the oil in tpitcher's photo again. Think that stuff is doing nice things circulating through the motor? Wouldn't it be better to get rid of that? Isn't that what oil filters were invented for?

For motors that do not have oil filters I recommend a couple extra flushes when the motor is new to get rid of that stuff. I can't prove that it is "necessary" but common sense tells me it is a good idea if I want the engine to run well for a long, long time. Can I prove it? No, but I don't limit myself to only things I can prove.

So, my advice remains the same. Yes, you may get the exact same service from fewer oil changes, but you can't prove that either.

 

[Turk]

Not exactly 50%, duh. I don't have measuring increments, but there was a lot of gas, around halfway down or a bit lower in the black tank and it's usually almost dry! Blew my mind.

It probably helped that I put a large dose of Seafoam in the gas for the last run before Winter. This 1991 5HP B&S ran way better than the previous mowings.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher

ONLY 2 hours on my NEW Craftsman Roto-Tiller..........

This stuff must be drained out, early.



Bror Jace: "Now, look at the oil in tpitcher's photo again. Think that stuff is doing nice things circulating through the motor? Wouldn't it be better to get rid of that?"

In case anyone needs a reminder... THIS ^ must be removed!

 

[boraticus]

One flush is all the manufacturers recommend and from my experience, one short duration oil flush is all that's needed.

Let people decide for themselves but let's not mislead them with unfounded advice built more on oil obsession than fact.

tpitcher:

It's unwise to make outlandish claims that cannot be substantiated. I'm not doubting that you may have achieved improved fuel economy with your mower. I managed to accomplish the same by cleaning my carburetor.

I can see a very slippery oil contributing somewhat to fuel economy. Points of a percent or at the very most low single digits would be believable. Claiming anything near 50% is wild exaggeration and does not bolster one's credibility.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
One flush is all the manufacturers recommend and from my experience, one short duration oil flush is all that's needed.

Let people decide for themselves but let's not mislead them with unfounded advice built more on oil obsession than fact.

tpitcher:

It's unwise to make outlandish claims that cannot be substantiated. I'm not doubting that you may have achieved improved fuel economy with your mower. I managed to accomplish the same by cleaning my carburetor.

I can see a very slippery oil contributing somewhat to fuel economy. Points of a percent or at the very most low single digits would be believable. Claiming anything near 50% is wild exaggeration and does not bolster one's credibility.


Yep, someone always wants to make someone else look bad in front of others and it looks like it's YOU!

Tape measure of gas left in gas tank: 1"

Tape measure of full tank after refill: 2 1/4"

That's 44.4%. Sorry, I overguessed by 5.6% with my peek in the gas tank.

Let's see if you apologize, in front of everyone else here...

 

[boraticus]

"That's 44.4%."

Not believing that either.

Do you have any idea how revolutionary it would be to improve fuel consumption by 44.4% just by using a specific oil???

Please.

 

[Bror Jace]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
One flush is all the manufacturers recommend and from my experience, one short duration oil flush is all that's needed.


And my experience breaking in new OPE suggests one short duration oil flush doesn’t remove all visible particles, not to mention the other smaller wear particles that are likely present but not visible. It takes 2 or 3 changes in the first 10-15 hours of operation to thoroughly remove this debris as it is usually still breaking in past the 5 hour mark.

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Let people decide for themselves but let's not mislead them with unfounded advice built more on oil obsession than fact.


I have misled no one. My advice is founded on consistent, clearly visible evidence.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
"That's 44.4%."

Not believing that either.

Do you have any idea how revolutionary it would be to improve fuel consumption by 44.4% just by using a specific oil???

Please.


Oh, guess I shouldda took a pic of the tape measure, along with my metal soup pic.

Oh, and I shouldda calibrated my eye before I glanced in the tank in the first place, shocked at what I saw.

...and for a 3 second glance (oh wait, it could have been 2-4 seconds, sorry I didn't use a stopwatch for you...) that was a pretty good observation.

Whatever the factors were, those were the measurements. Period.

Have a good day!

 

[boraticus]

"I have misled no one. My advice is founded on consistent, clearly visible evidence."

If your "evidence" is so compelling, why wouldn't all engine manufacturers advise us to do multiple short duration oil changes?

I think I have the answer: It's not n-e-c-e-s-s-a-r-y!

However, do you think the engine manufacturers might just have a hidden agenda of not advising us to do so just to ensure their engines expire .01% sooner just so they can sell us more?

I would bet that there is far more "compelling" evidence against multiple short duration changes than for.

I don't know how many times it's been mentioned that OPE engines usually outlast the equipment they come on. They take abuse willingly and very many live long, productive lives with next to no maintenance.

Accordingly, how much do you think addition short duration oil changes will add to an OPE engine's life? Is there a clear cut advantage to do so? If not, why do it?

I think I've made my point plenty clear. I'm certain that those who are capable of reasonable thought will determine what's required and what's not.

44%. Incredible!!!

 

[lars11]

About this metallic debris: Is it shavings left in there after manufacturing and bad aftertreatment of parts OR heavy initial wear?
Just wondering. I think it is too much to be worn off in a few hours... Gotta be left in there at assembly(?)

Thing is I noticed the metallic in some Briggs engines and nothing in others, which leads me in the direction of bad assembly practices.

Anyways, that is small metal pieces. If steel, bad for all functional surfaces in the engine, if aluminum, bad at least for the plastic gears in some engines.

Theoretically, one oil drain with no flush, will leave a lot of that in there. If it looks like metallic paint I would do a flush of another oil change to reduce the [censored] to a minimum. It's not dirty oil, it's oil and metal parts...

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
"That's 44.4%."

Not believing that either.

Do you have any idea how revolutionary it would be to improve fuel consumption by 44.4% just by using a specific oil???

Please.


Agreed, but if it did I'd surely buy some...

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: boraticus
"That's 44.4%."

Not believing that either.

Do you have any idea how revolutionary it would be to improve fuel consumption by 44.4% just by using a specific oil???

Please.


Agreed, but if it did I'd surely buy some...



Can you imagine the cost of it if such an elixir were available?

Oh wait, we already know.... just look at the price of Amsoil.

44.4%........ Really???? Where do is sign?

 

[Bror Jace]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
If your "evidence" is so compelling, why wouldn't all engine manufacturers advise us to do multiple short duration oil changes?


Manufacturers of all types of vehicles and equipment prefer to sell a product that requires less maintenance. Maintenance schedules of all types tend to recommend the bare minimum of maintenance to get their product safely out of the warranty period.


Originally Posted By: boraticus
However, do you think the engine manufacturers might just have a hidden agenda of not advising us to do so just to ensure their engines expire .01% sooner just so they can sell us more?


I think there is some truth to this, even if your 0.01% number is just silly. While they do not want warranty problems, manufacturers have no interest in helping you nurse the unit along for 2 decades or more.

Originally Posted By: boraticus
I don't know how many times it's been mentioned that OPE engines usually outlast the equipment they come on. They take abuse willingly and very many live long, productive lives with next to no maintenance.


We’ve all heard the stories of the owner who has abused/neglected his/her OPE for years ... maybe a decade or more only to have it continue to chug along reliably. While some of these stories are undoubtedly true, how many of us have seen old, neglected OPE engines that are difficult to start and bellow tons of smoke when they do? I’ve lost count of the latter.

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Accordingly, how much do you think addition short duration oil changes will add to an OPE engine's life? Is there a clear cut advantage to do so? If not, why do it?


For the total investment of about a quart and a half of leftover motor oil, I do not have to show much benefit to justify it.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Portland, How did you know? I was down there two weeks ago, picking up a Jeep load of Amsoil that was over $2500. Drove my 99 Cherokee down from Wenatchee and back, 593 miles, and averaged 22.8 MPG. With her freshly Built 4.0, well has been "Driven-In" over the last 300 miles or so, but that Trip was her Test and she did Muy Gut!

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Portland is not a Stash, either. The AMSOIL warehouse in Portland is exactly that, a Distribution warehouse, or pick-up spot. They always let me back my Jeep up that ramp to the loading area, to my pallet of AMSOIL goodness, hopefully stacked Higher and HIGHER each time. Last time Total weight was over 600 LBS. That puts a Pre-Runner look to which ever Cherokee I happen to Drive there.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Portland, How did you know? I was down there two weeks ago, picking up a Jeep load of Amsoil that was over $2500. Drove my 99 Cherokee down from Wenatchee and back, 593 miles, and averaged 22.8 MPG. With her freshly Built 4.0, well has been "Driven-In" over the last 300 miles or so, but that Trip was her Test and she did Muy Gut!


Sounds like you're not getting the 44.4% improvement in fuel economy that you should be getting from that Amsoil. Jeep advertise that the Cherokee should get 20 mpg on the highway. So, you're about 6 mpg short. Nonetheless, 2.8 mpg higher than what the manufacturer states is impressive. My sister-in-law happens to own a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 with the 4.0 liter engine. She gets 15 mpg on the highway and she drives like an old lady. Well, she is an old lady. For a Jeep, you're getting excellent fuel mileage. The best I've heard from a Jeep owner.


By the way, my '96 Toyota T100 with a 3.4 liter engine gets approx. 23 mpg on the highway using conventional oil. If I were to switch to Amsoil, will my mileage be closer to 33 mpg?

 

[Nick R]

Really? Those 4.0L motors are known to get actually pretty excellent highway mileage for truck motors.

 

[boraticus]

Actually, I was assigned a new 1996 Jeep Cherokee as a company vehicle for work and drove it for three years or so. The only thing positive I can say about it was that the in-line six engine made decent power.

Fuel economy was terrible, the vehicle had the suspension of a roller skate and the body was built like a sardine can. The interior was very cheap and uncomfortable. Occasionally smoke would whisp out from under the dash near the heater controls. Never could straighten that problem out.

It was actually a very good choice of vehicle for the company to supply. They could rest assured that it wouldn't be getting too much voluntary mileage on it.

 

[Merkava_4]

I like 10W-40 for small engines being operated above 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Just my preference.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Who said I have Amsoil in my Jeep Cherokees crankcase? In fact, I gave this motor, with Bobistheoilguy Advise, a plain Conventional motor oil for Motor Run-In for Her Fresh HIGH Compression 4.0 I Built this summer. Her first two Sump fills consisted of my Custom Break-In oil, which many of You did not approve of. Some of You recommended Pennzoil Conventional 10w30, and I like that recommendation, so thats what I used. That has always Been one of my Fall Favorites with the mainly Yellow bottle with Green 10w30, it reminds me of the color of most leaves now here in Wenatchee, WA.