There is NO right or wrong here, but no doubt best to error on the side of caution and change after a few hours... Weather there will be metal particles all depends on the efficiency of the wash during the machining process... My generator with a 8Hp Briggs was loaded, oil looked like metallic paint, while a cheap Chonda pressure washer looked fine after a couple hour run in... Go figure...
First oil change on small engine.
- Thread starter bmon
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boraticus, you seem to be the only one that doesn't notice an abundance of glitter in new OPE at the first (and 2nd and 3rd) oil change.
Anyway, manufacturers are even recommending the first oil change after just a handful of hours. The manual for my new B&S 250cc snow series engine recommends a first interval of only 5 hours before you settle into an annual or 50 hour drain interval.
And even then, they would like me to get good use out of the engine ... about 250 hours or maybe a bit more. I would like the engine to be running strong (like-new compression and no oil consumption) well in excess of that duration.
So, I'll be changing it after 2-3 hours (depending on the number or severity of storms) and then another 3-4 after that, then probably at the 10-12 hour mark then I will settle in to once per year or a 25 hours, depending, depending.
Anyway, manufacturers are even recommending the first oil change after just a handful of hours. The manual for my new B&S 250cc snow series engine recommends a first interval of only 5 hours before you settle into an annual or 50 hour drain interval.
And even then, they would like me to get good use out of the engine ... about 250 hours or maybe a bit more. I would like the engine to be running strong (like-new compression and no oil consumption) well in excess of that duration.
So, I'll be changing it after 2-3 hours (depending on the number or severity of storms) and then another 3-4 after that, then probably at the 10-12 hour mark then I will settle in to once per year or a 25 hours, depending, depending.
"boraticus, you seem to be the only one that doesn't notice an abundance of glitter in new OPE at the first (and 2nd and 3rd) oil change."
That might just possibly be because I actually look for it and if it's not there, I'm satisfied with that.
Don't confuse me with some anal retentive, oil brand fanatic incapable of discerning reality from say-so. I've owned and worked on small engines for decades. I was also, in my youth, formally trained as a diesel mechanic. Accordingly, I have a fairly good grasp of mechanics and maintenance.
I've never said to avoid doing the 5 hour oil change. As a matter of fact, I recommend it. That's where you get the info you need to read the oil. What I'm against is all of the fanatical recommendations and endorsements advising participants to do multiple short duration OCIs. It's unnecessary and wasteful.
If numerous short duration OCI's were essential, one would think that every engine manufacturer, large and small, would be telling us to do so.
Far too many participants encourage unnecessarily wasteful/expensive oil maintenance practices. Myself and other like mined people need to temper this questionable guidance and try to provide alternative opinions that steer a course for sensible, realistic maintenance that is more than adequate for the engine as well as cost effective.
You can change your oil every ten minutes if it makes you happy. However, to encourage such a practice would not be of any use to anyone looking for engine break in information.
That might just possibly be because I actually look for it and if it's not there, I'm satisfied with that.
Don't confuse me with some anal retentive, oil brand fanatic incapable of discerning reality from say-so. I've owned and worked on small engines for decades. I was also, in my youth, formally trained as a diesel mechanic. Accordingly, I have a fairly good grasp of mechanics and maintenance.
I've never said to avoid doing the 5 hour oil change. As a matter of fact, I recommend it. That's where you get the info you need to read the oil. What I'm against is all of the fanatical recommendations and endorsements advising participants to do multiple short duration OCIs. It's unnecessary and wasteful.
If numerous short duration OCI's were essential, one would think that every engine manufacturer, large and small, would be telling us to do so.
Far too many participants encourage unnecessarily wasteful/expensive oil maintenance practices. Myself and other like mined people need to temper this questionable guidance and try to provide alternative opinions that steer a course for sensible, realistic maintenance that is more than adequate for the engine as well as cost effective.
You can change your oil every ten minutes if it makes you happy. However, to encourage such a practice would not be of any use to anyone looking for engine break in information.
Originally Posted By: bmon
Thanks for all the great contributions. My main concern is if the Amsoil will prevent proper breaking in due to its excellent properties. Any way, thanks once again to everyone.
Just do a couple changes with conventional oil and you will be good to go.
Thanks for all the great contributions. My main concern is if the Amsoil will prevent proper breaking in due to its excellent properties. Any way, thanks once again to everyone.
Just do a couple changes with conventional oil and you will be good to go.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I bought my mower with the Honda 160 on it back in 2000. I used the furnished 30W oil for the recommended 5 hours, and then changed it to Mobil 1 5W30, and have changed the oil annually for the last 11 years. I have always had one of those hour use meters (they only last about 6 or 7 Years) on it. I've been averaging about 60 hours a year; it now has a little over 650 hours on it. Never, in 11 years has it ever burned more than a sixteenth of an inch of oil off the dip stick in a one year, 60 hour OCI.
IMHO, it is a waste of oil and time to perform multiple oil changes at short intervals when new.
I would like to repeat my posting from above to show that Boraticus is not the only one with his opinion of multiple oil changes being unnecessary on new OPE.
I bought my mower with the Honda 160 on it back in 2000. I used the furnished 30W oil for the recommended 5 hours, and then changed it to Mobil 1 5W30, and have changed the oil annually for the last 11 years. I have always had one of those hour use meters (they only last about 6 or 7 Years) on it. I've been averaging about 60 hours a year; it now has a little over 650 hours on it. Never, in 11 years has it ever burned more than a sixteenth of an inch of oil off the dip stick in a one year, 60 hour OCI.
IMHO, it is a waste of oil and time to perform multiple oil changes at short intervals when new.
I would like to repeat my posting from above to show that Boraticus is not the only one with his opinion of multiple oil changes being unnecessary on new OPE.
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Boraticus, no need to get all defensive. This isn’t personal. No need to go through your credentials, etc …
Several of us see a lot of metal glitter in the used oil of new OPE, it’s not just me and one other guy. I don’t know why you don’t … I never even tried to guess.
Again, manufacturers are recommending at least one very early oil change (in B&S’s case, 1/10th of a normal interval). That shows there is an issue. They are essentially saying one extra, early change is “good enough” to deal with the extra debris, others here say do two or three based on what is visible in the drained oil. That’s all.
I take really good care of things I own as I want them to last. I hope to use OPE such as this snowblower for 12-15 years, not merely the industry average which is probably closer to half that.
These sumps are often tiny (my new B&S only holds 18-20oz) so the extra oil is negligible … and I recycle every drop I drain out.
And, OPE that I run and maintain use zero make-up oil, so that's an offsetting oil savings right there.
Several of us see a lot of metal glitter in the used oil of new OPE, it’s not just me and one other guy. I don’t know why you don’t … I never even tried to guess.
Again, manufacturers are recommending at least one very early oil change (in B&S’s case, 1/10th of a normal interval). That shows there is an issue. They are essentially saying one extra, early change is “good enough” to deal with the extra debris, others here say do two or three based on what is visible in the drained oil. That’s all.
I take really good care of things I own as I want them to last. I hope to use OPE such as this snowblower for 12-15 years, not merely the industry average which is probably closer to half that.
These sumps are often tiny (my new B&S only holds 18-20oz) so the extra oil is negligible … and I recycle every drop I drain out.
And, OPE that I run and maintain use zero make-up oil, so that's an offsetting oil savings right there.
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Boraticus, no need to get all defensive. This isn’t personal. No need to go through your credentials, etc …
EXACTLY.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
You can have your opinions, others can have their own.
Indeed, nothing personal at ALL. Please don't try and "win" the internet game every time. We totally believe you when you say you haven't seen metal....but most of us have. It's not some zero sum game....and no this is not about selling oil. I was an oil freak long before I became an Amsoil dealer so that dog don't hunt.
Boraticus, no need to get all defensive. This isn’t personal. No need to go through your credentials, etc …
EXACTLY.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
You can have your opinions, others can have their own.
Indeed, nothing personal at ALL. Please don't try and "win" the internet game every time. We totally believe you when you say you haven't seen metal....but most of us have. It's not some zero sum game....and no this is not about selling oil. I was an oil freak long before I became an Amsoil dealer so that dog don't hunt.
Pablo, if youre ever over my way, you should look me up and Id buy you a cup of coffee or a Brew. Id like to talk to a fellow Oil Freak in person. We are kind of rare. Mikey(509)668-8767
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Ive got a Amsoil stash you wouldnt believe until you saw it.
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Ive got a Amsoil stash you wouldnt believe until you saw it.
Larger than Portland?
Ive got a Amsoil stash you wouldnt believe until you saw it.
Larger than Portland?
I apologize if I seem to be incorrectly observed as being defensive or offensive.
The point that I'm trying to make is that oil addicts, who may or may not be a bit OCD about oil and maintenance are giving recommendations and advice to do things that aren't necessary.
When their advice is challenged or questioned, they take a negative view of the opposing opinion and remain adamant that their advice is essential to ensure long engine life. Which, from my experience is utter nonsense.
I've yet to have an OPE engine expire after conducting the normal 5 hour initial oil change then settling into the routine 50 hour changes. I would bet that there are millions out there who get exactly the same results as I. Certainly far more than those doing multiple short duration changes.
Maybe someone can explain to me and those who share my opinion, why our engines likely perform as well and last as long without going through multiple short duration changes?
Could it possibly be because multiple short duration OCIs are not required?
If a person has OCD about their engines and cannot live with normal engine maintenance, by all means, change that oil ever half hour. It makes no difference to me. However, please don't imply that an engine will not perform as well or last as long if it doesn't get multiple short term OCIs for break in. It's just not so.
The point that I'm trying to make is that oil addicts, who may or may not be a bit OCD about oil and maintenance are giving recommendations and advice to do things that aren't necessary.
When their advice is challenged or questioned, they take a negative view of the opposing opinion and remain adamant that their advice is essential to ensure long engine life. Which, from my experience is utter nonsense.
I've yet to have an OPE engine expire after conducting the normal 5 hour initial oil change then settling into the routine 50 hour changes. I would bet that there are millions out there who get exactly the same results as I. Certainly far more than those doing multiple short duration changes.
Maybe someone can explain to me and those who share my opinion, why our engines likely perform as well and last as long without going through multiple short duration changes?
Could it possibly be because multiple short duration OCIs are not required?
If a person has OCD about their engines and cannot live with normal engine maintenance, by all means, change that oil ever half hour. It makes no difference to me. However, please don't imply that an engine will not perform as well or last as long if it doesn't get multiple short term OCIs for break in. It's just not so.
You want a picture of metal flakes out of a new small engine, here's the metal flakes right here!!!
Hundreds of thousands of metal flakes in the drain pan, extreme silver waves...
ONLY 2 hours on my NEW Craftsman Roto-Tiller..........
This stuff must be drained out, early.
Hundreds of thousands of metal flakes in the drain pan, extreme silver waves...
ONLY 2 hours on my NEW Craftsman Roto-Tiller..........
This stuff must be drained out, early.
Although it may not be necessary in OPE, I have found by using Amsoil in mine has provided me a longer run time on a tank of fuel. If I were to get a new piece of OPE, I would sleep well at night running the new Amsoil Break In oil. This should be more than adequate before switching over to something like Amsoil ASE which is an excellent and well priced synthetic.
Originally Posted By: troyb43
Although it may not be necessary in OPE, I have found by using Amsoil in mine has provided me a longer run time on a tank of fuel. If I were to get a new piece of OPE, I would sleep well at night running the new Amsoil Break In oil. This should be more than adequate before switching over to something like Amsoil ASE which is an excellent and well priced synthetic.
I put in Amsoil ASE for the 1st time ever in my 1991 Toro 5HP Recycler I inherited from my Dad.
Every lawn mowing used almost a full tank of gas and for the 1st time ever, the tank was only down 1/2 way in this Fall's last mowing.
I'll monitor it next Spring and see if that holds. So, yea, it's using way less gas with ASE in it.
Although it may not be necessary in OPE, I have found by using Amsoil in mine has provided me a longer run time on a tank of fuel. If I were to get a new piece of OPE, I would sleep well at night running the new Amsoil Break In oil. This should be more than adequate before switching over to something like Amsoil ASE which is an excellent and well priced synthetic.
I put in Amsoil ASE for the 1st time ever in my 1991 Toro 5HP Recycler I inherited from my Dad.
Every lawn mowing used almost a full tank of gas and for the 1st time ever, the tank was only down 1/2 way in this Fall's last mowing.
"for the 1st time ever, the tank was only down 1/2 way in this Fall's last mowing."
50% fuel savings????
That sounds like the Harley guys using Amsoil. Fuel mileage improved sooooo much that they had to stop at gas stations to off-load fuel.......
50%....!!!!!!!
50% fuel savings????
That sounds like the Harley guys using Amsoil. Fuel mileage improved sooooo much that they had to stop at gas stations to off-load fuel.......
50%....!!!!!!!
No seriously, if nothing else, these Chonda OHV engines are extremely fuel efficient. A single tank in the snowblower can last for about 3 hours running time, and it's only like a half gallon tank. Maybe it's because they are set to run so lean.
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