FINAL UPDATE - Defective Fram Ultra? Missing ADBV leads to engine damage in 2018 Mazda6?

[ZeeOSix]

Then you'd need a 3rd filter to catch the 2nd filter, and a 4th filter to catch the 3rd filter ... to infinity.

 

[Kokopelli34179]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad this had a good resolution. Great that Fram stood behind their product.

 

[kschachn]

I would refer back the links he provided in the first post.

Yes.

 

[Zee09]

You will never see this happen with a FL820's

 

[bullwinkle]

You will never see this happen with a FL820's

You mean Purolator standing behind their inferior garbage filters? I agree!

 

[Job]

I’m not shaking filters except for the Ultra. The others haven’t had the problem. Nice that there are try’s for that to be the case, but it isn’t. Which means I shake no more filters after I use the last Ultra in the stash. The stash that actually wasted me probably a $100 over not having a stash and buying one or two as needed.
Since the Fram adbv sticks well inside the center tube it is more prone to being pushed into the center tube. Others are not the same as that regardless of the attempts to make them the same through talking. It was a double whammy, a loose element and an adbv sitting well inside already.
I dont clap my hands for Frams response either, it was basically no choice. Imagining another company wouldn’t do the same is just imagination. It seems they should have thrown him or her extra cash for a new engine cost, now he or she has a used one put in if I remember right.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Since the Fram adbv sticks well inside the center tube it is more prone to being pushed into the center tube. Others are not the same as that regardless of the attempts to make them the same through talking. It was a double whammy, a loose element and an adbv sitting well inside already.

Look at a lot of the recent C&Ps of other filter brands and you'll see the same protrusion of their ADBV inside the center tube. And besides, if the guts are loose, the danger of the ADBV getting pushed into the center tube by the oil flow delta-p is still there regardless of ADBV design. It's worth shaking and inspecting every spin-on oil filter, regardless of brand or model. No filter is immune from being dropped and potentially damaged.

 

[Suzuki-2000]

Look at a lot of the recent C&Ps of other filter brands and you'll see the same protrusion of their ADBV inside the center tube. And besides, if the guts are loose, the danger of the ADBV getting pushed into the center tube by the oil flow delta-p is still there regardless of ADBV design. It's worth shaking and inspecting every spin-on oil filter, regardless of brand or model. No filter is immune from being dropped and potentially damaged.

In my opinion a filter with a proper coil spring, and adbv with a groove in it that the base plate pushes into is a lot less likely to have this problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

In my opinion a filter with a proper coil spring, and adbv with a groove in it that the base plate pushes into is a lot less likely to have this problem.

Maybe ... maybe not. All depends how much the guts become loose, regardless of the ADBV design. But yeah, a coil spring instead of a leaf spring wouldn't be susceptible to damage. Personally, I'm gonna continue checking out and shaking oil filters to look for loose guts and not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Zee09]

Maybe ... maybe not. All depends how much the guts become loose, regardless of the ADBV design. But yeah, a coil spring instead of a leaf spring wouldn't be susceptible to damage. Personally, I'm gonna continue checking out and shaking oil filters to look for loose guts and not going to lose any sleep over it.

Yeah shake the filters when you shake the jugs of hoarded older oil...

 

[Job]

Look at a lot of the recent C&Ps of other filter brands and you'll see the same protrusion of their ADBV inside the center tube. And besides, if the guts are loose, the danger of the ADBV getting pushed into the center tube by the oil flow delta-p is still there regardless of ADBV design. It's worth shaking and inspecting every spin-on oil filter, regardless of brand or model. No filter is immune from being dropped and potentially damaged.

I haven't seen those pictures, Fram has the most and it's a lot of valve up in there. You can look in any Fram and see the valve in the thread hole. Too bad they can't engineer the spring beefier to prevent the heavy element from smacking things loose. Maybe now they will since it cost them a few dollars although it's chicken feed to them.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I haven't seen those pictures, Fram has the most and it's a lot of valve up in there. You can look in any Fram and see the valve in the thread hole. Too bad they can't engineer the spring beefier to prevent the heavy element from smacking things loose. Maybe now they will since it cost them a few dollars although it's chicken feed to them.

Actaually, it seems like most Champ made filters have a similar ADBV design as Fram. And yes, Fram should look at their design to see if they could make the leaf spring more robust in case filters get dropped along the way between the factory and the car.

 

[MrPlow]

I'm still not buying the whole "it was dropped" theory. I would think the force needed to flatten out a leaf spring from the inertia of the filter internals would leave a massive dent on the end of the filter can. I wonder, if instead, it was a factory defect that somehow hit this one particular model of filter?

 

[gregk24]

I am sorry this happened to you but it's nice to see Fram stepped up and took care of you. I will keep using their Fram Ultra filter for oil changes on my Accord. I will inspect as always before purchasing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm still not buying the whole "it was dropped" theory. I would think the force needed to flatten out a leaf spring from the inertia of the filter internals would leave a massive dent on the end of the filter can. I wonder, if instead, it was a factory defect that somehow hit this one particular model of filter?

If it was a factory defect or bad design, I'd expect to see way more instances of loose guts happening. A filter dropped while in the box may not show any physical damage, but if the impulse energy impact of the guts against the leaf spring is large enough during a dome end down drop, it could bend/weaken it.

Could buy a new Ultra and do some in-box drop tests and see if some dome end down drops make the guts loose.

 

[demarpaint]

Last month, there were two threads about a defective fram ultra filter for a mazda 2.5L. Due to bickering, both threads were locked.

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First thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...leads-to-engine-damage-in-2018-mazda6.337263/

Second thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-leads-to-engine-damage-in-2018-mazda6.337855
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Many of you asked to to be updated once it was resolved so here's the final update from another forum:

"Hey everyone, OP here! Thanks for everyone's insights, comments (whether good or bad, appreciated all of them), criticism, etc. I wanted to give you all an update on what happened.

I went to an independent mechanic to get my engine replaced. Ended up replacing it with a used engine (that comes with a warranty) because Mazda said it could take up to two months to source a new engine. As I sent the pictures previously, the independent mechanic found the seal in my original engine. After I got the car back, I sent the defective filter back to Fram (they had sent me a prepaid shipping label) and other forms to fill out. Alongside, I sent the images of the seal in my engine and the links to this forum and the Bob oil guy forum. Within a week after Fram received the defective oil filter, I had their insurance company contact me and offer me the full payout for replacing my engine and the initial diagnosis costs from Mazda. They were very fast with this, I was able to get a resolution and the whole amount wire transferred to me a week after the filter was received.

All in all, I acknowledge that this was a lucky outcome for me and am very relieved about it. While the car is still under warranty for another 11 months, I will be going to Mazda to do my oil changes going forward."

IMO that's fast, real fast, and amazing in fact. I would also be willing to bet if hypothetically speaking it was an oil related failure, every single oil company ever mentioned on this board would be pointing fingers in every direction but their own.

Playing pin the tail on someone else, until a judge or arbitrator told them they had to pay out. JMO

 

[MrPlow]

If it was a factory defect or bad design, I'd expect to see way more instances of loose guts happening. A filter dropped while in the box may not show any physical damage, but if the impulse energy impact of the guts against the leaf spring is large enough during a dome end down drop, it could bend/weaken it.

Could buy a new Ultra and do some in-box drop tests and see if some dome end down drops make the guts loose.

Seems like we're just barfing conjecture between us all until some tests are done on the matter. I've never tried bending a filter spring, but I would be surprised if it was weak enough to bend from the internals without major damage done to the outside. It would also have to be determined how loose that spring can be before it actually lets a valve suck through. Might be a fault of the design that if the spring is off by even a small margin, it can lead to massive ADBV failure.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Seems like we're just barfing conjecture between us all until some tests are done on the matter. I've never tried bending a filter spring, but I would be surprised if it was weak enough to bend from the internals without major damage done to the outside.

Test it and see. KE/inertial energy might surprise you, and being in a box may not cause visible external damage to the filter. Plus the non-slip grip on the dome end can hide some slight external damage on the can.

 

[Suzuki-2000]

These so called leaf springs really don't have much flex to them like a coil springs do. If you flex them to much they they just bend, and lose the internal tension that holds the filter together. Coil springs are the superior design in my opinion

 

[MrPlow]

These so called leaf springs really don't have much flex to them like a coil springs do. If you flex them to much they they just bend, and lose the internal tension that holds the filter together. Coil springs are the superior design in my opinion

True. I think it may also be possible that even reduced tension could cause issues even if the thing does not rattle. Might not take much compression at all in the spring to let that happen with the way the ADBV is designed and housed.