FilterMag on a Royal Purple 820 = DANGER??

[stchman]

This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


Jim Allen mentioned he had one of those old Beattles with just a screen and no oil filter. Guess what, the engine needed a rebuild at 75K miles.

I highly doubt an engine would go 250K miles like they do today with no oil filter on them, unless you changed oil every 2K miles. You could use your car for this test and let us know how it comes out.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


Jim Allen mentioned he had one of those old Beattles with just a screen and no oil filter. Guess what, the engine needed a rebuild at 75K miles.

I highly doubt an engine would go 250K miles like they do today with no oil filter on them, unless you changed oil every 2K miles. You could use your car for this test and let us know how it comes out.

My father bought an early 60s Beetle in the early 70s. He had the thing for about 8 years. He sold it and it still ran great. It had over 75K on it and no engine rebuild.

Just because one Beetle needed a rebuild at 75K does not mean ALL of them do.

The way this thread is going, unless you filter out particles > 2 microns in size, your engine is doomed.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


Jim Allen mentioned he had one of those old Beattles with just a screen and no oil filter. Guess what, the engine needed a rebuild at 75K miles.

I highly doubt an engine would go 250K miles like they do today with no oil filter on them, unless you changed oil every 2K miles. You could use your car for this test and let us know how it comes out.

My father bought an early 60s Beetle in the early 70s. He had the thing for about 8 years. He sold it and it still ran great. It had over 75K on it and no engine rebuild.

Just because one Beetle needed a rebuild at 75K does not mean ALL of them do.

The way this thread is going, unless you filter out particles > 2 microns in size, your engine is doomed.


Just because it appears to "still run great" at 75K doesn't mean it might have a lot of wear on engine parts.

I've had plenty of engines that still ran OK and seemed to "run great", but they were on the verge of a needed rebuild.

IMO, oil filters (and of course regular oil changes) do help keep wear down. Like I said, if you don't believe it then cap off the oil filter mount on your car and save some money on filters.

Nobody said filters had to filter everything out 100% to help keep wear down. Drama factor is going up in this thread.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


Jim Allen mentioned he had one of those old Beattles with just a screen and no oil filter. Guess what, the engine needed a rebuild at 75K miles.

I highly doubt an engine would go 250K miles like they do today with no oil filter on them, unless you changed oil every 2K miles. You could use your car for this test and let us know how it comes out.

My father bought an early 60s Beetle in the early 70s. He had the thing for about 8 years. He sold it and it still ran great. It had over 75K on it and no engine rebuild.

Just because one Beetle needed a rebuild at 75K does not mean ALL of them do.

The way this thread is going, unless you filter out particles > 2 microns in size, your engine is doomed.


Just because it appears to "still run great" at 75K doesn't mean it might have a lot of wear on engine parts.

I've had plenty of engines that still ran OK and seemed to "run great", but they were on the verge of a needed rebuild.

IMO, oil filters (and of course regular oil changes) do help keep wear down. Like I said, if you don't believe it then cap off the oil filter mount on your car and save some money on filters.

Nobody said filters had to filter everything out 100% to help keep wear down. Drama factor is going up in this thread.

I never said I don't believe oil filters work. I am trying to say that people are overreacting. I personally think that particles too small to be filtered out by a conventional oil filter are essentially harmless to an engine. If they were so devastating to an engine, manufacturers would have better oil filtering methods.

How do you filters out the engine dooming particles between 1 and 20 microns?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman

I never said I don't believe oil filters work. I am trying to say that people are overreacting. I personally think that particles too small to be filtered out by a conventional oil filter are essentially harmless to an engine. If they were so devastating to an engine, manufacturers would have better oil filtering methods.

How do you filters out the engine dooming particles between 1 and 20 microns?


Your right ... all those studies on engine wear vs. particle size is all bogus, made up false data. Believe whatever you want ... you've brought the most drama to the discussion.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


RE: the part in red... totally agree. As long as you filter below about 40 um absolute, the difference in wear short term is negligible as long as the contamination levels don't rise beyond a certain level (varies according to the engine). As I said above, the most cost effective reason for enhanced filtration is extending the OCI.

As to the VW thing.. I quite literally got rich rebuilding air cooled VW engines in the '70s. At least it seemed that way. I was a VW tech, at both a dealer and independent shops and for a while rebuilt VW engines on the side for a local auto parts store. I imagine I did hundreds of them at least. They died like flies. Much of that was lack of maintenance or should I say a lack of knowledge of the PROPER maintenance a VW required. One of those requirements was frequent oil changes 2500-3000 miles MAX. In tearing one down, it was pretty much standard to have the bearings worn out and embedded with a lot of debris. They really needed better filtration. 75K was about the max you ever saw on the west coast in those days. Less if it was a bus. Those who didn't flog their VW and took care of them could do better but that was unusual. People treated their VeeDubs like Detroit Road Barges, paid the price and then badmouthed the cars. East coast VWs, cooler weather, did better on the mechanical side but, of course, rusted to powder rather quickly.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I never said I don't believe oil filters work. I am trying to say that people are overreacting. I personally think that particles too small to be filtered out by a conventional oil filter are essentially harmless to an engine. If they were so devastating to an engine, manufacturers would have better oil filtering methods.

How do you filters out the engine dooming particles between 1 and 20 microns?


Your right ... all those studies on engine wear vs. particle size is all bogus, made up false data. Believe whatever you want ... you've brought the most drama to the discussion.

You never answered the question as to how you filter particles smaller than 20 microns? I am actually asking a serious question.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: stchman
This tread his heading towards complete blather.

The old Volkswagen Beetle didn't even have an oil filter(junky screen), and there are still a LOT of old Beetles running around.

IMO, change your oil regularly, use a decent oil filter, don't let the engine overheat, and the engine will more than likely far outlast the body.


RE: the part in red... totally agree. As long as you filter below about 40 um absolute, the difference in wear short term is negligible as long as the contamination levels don't rise beyond a certain level (varies according to the engine). As I said above, the most cost effective reason for enhanced filtration is extending the OCI.

As to the VW thing.. I quite literally got rich rebuilding air cooled VW engines in the '70s. At least it seemed that way. I was a VW tech, at both a dealer and independent shops and for a while rebuilt VW engines on the side for a local auto parts store. I imagine I did hundreds of them at least. They died like flies. Much of that was lack of maintenance or should I say a lack of knowledge of the PROPER maintenance a VW required. One of those requirements was frequent oil changes 2500-3000 miles MAX. In tearing one down, it was pretty much standard to have the bearings worn out and embedded with a lot of debris. They really needed better filtration. 75K was about the max you ever saw on the west coast in those days. Less if it was a bus. Those who didn't flog their VW and took care of them could do better but that was unusual. People treated their VeeDubs like Detroit Road Barges, paid the price and then badmouthed the cars. East coast VWs, cooler weather, did better on the mechanical side but, of course, rusted to powder rather quickly.


I imagine that VW had a recommended oil change interval for the Beetle?

I would suspect that since the original Beetle engine did not have a filter that more frequent oil changes were necessary.

I am not a mechanic nor a petroleum/lubrication engineer, but in the 7 years I worked in the quick-lube industry I can say I saw more than my share of people not changing the oil until the engine light came on, the engine started smoking, the engine rattled real bad, etc. Then I would change the oil, the engine would die(the fresh oil would probably loosen up all that sludge and block small oil passages) and they would come stomping back saying that the shop owed them a new engine because we were the last one that serviced their car.

A really good one was that this dumb person said they didn't have to change their oil while the car was under warranty. Good idea, 36K miles on factory oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I never said I don't believe oil filters work. I am trying to say that people are overreacting. I personally think that particles too small to be filtered out by a conventional oil filter are essentially harmless to an engine. If they were so devastating to an engine, manufacturers would have better oil filtering methods.

How do you filters out the engine dooming particles between 1 and 20 microns?


Your right ... all those studies on engine wear vs. particle size is all bogus, made up false data. Believe whatever you want ... you've brought the most drama to the discussion.

You never answered the question as to how you filter particles smaller than 20 microns? I am actually asking a serious question.


Oil filters also filter below 20 microns ... but not as effectively. The more effective they are at 20 microns, the more effective they will also be for smaller particles relative to another filter that isn't as effective at 20 microns. For instance, this is data sent by Purolator to a member here.

µm -- Effieceny -- Beta Ratio
-----------------------------
5 -- 51.3% -- 2.054
10 -- 92.8% -- 13.9
15 -- 99.20% -- 125
20 -- 99.9% -- 1000
25 -- 100% -- Infinity
30 -- 100% -- Infinity
40 -- 100% -- Infinity

As you can see, the PureOne takes out more than 50% of particles 5 microns. Not too shabby.

Otherwise, use a bypass filter to get more of the stuff at 5 microns (or less even).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman

I am not a mechanic nor a petroleum/lubrication engineer, but in the 7 years I worked in the quick-lube industry I can say I saw more than my share of people not changing the oil until the engine light came on, the engine started smoking, the engine rattled real bad, etc.


That was due to LOW oil ... even if the oil was brand new and low it could smoke an engine.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I never said I don't believe oil filters work. I am trying to say that people are overreacting. I personally think that particles too small to be filtered out by a conventional oil filter are essentially harmless to an engine. If they were so devastating to an engine, manufacturers would have better oil filtering methods.

How do you filters out the engine dooming particles between 1 and 20 microns?


Your right ... all those studies on engine wear vs. particle size is all bogus, made up false data. Believe whatever you want ... you've brought the most drama to the discussion.

You never answered the question as to how you filter particles smaller than 20 microns? I am actually asking a serious question.


Oil filters also filter below 20 microns ... but not as effectively. The more effective they are at 20 microns, the more effective they will also be for smaller particles relative to another filter that isn't as effective at 20 microns. For instance, this is data sent by Purolator to a member here.

µm -- Effieceny -- Beta Ratio
-----------------------------
5 -- 51.3% -- 2.054
10 -- 92.8% -- 13.9
15 -- 99.20% -- 125
20 -- 99.9% -- 1000
25 -- 100% -- Infinity
30 -- 100% -- Infinity
40 -- 100% -- Infinity

As you can see, the PureOne takes out more than 50% of particles 5 microns. Not too shabby.

Otherwise, use a bypass filter to get more of the stuff at 5 microns (or less even).


Are there oil filters that do a better job? Fram Ultra, Mobil 1? Where does one acquire information like this for each oil filter make?

Thanks.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I am not a mechanic nor a petroleum/lubrication engineer, but in the 7 years I worked in the quick-lube industry I can say I saw more than my share of people not changing the oil until the engine light came on, the engine started smoking, the engine rattled real bad, etc.


That was due to LOW oil ... even if the oil was brand new and low it could smoke an engine.


I was trying to make the point that there are MANY folks out there that don't take care of their cars and then call them a POS when they fail.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I am not a mechanic nor a petroleum/lubrication engineer, but in the 7 years I worked in the quick-lube industry I can say I saw more than my share of people not changing the oil until the engine light came on, the engine started smoking, the engine rattled real bad, etc.


That was due to LOW oil ... even if the oil was brand new and low it could smoke an engine.


I was trying to make the point that there are MANY folks out there that don't take care of their cars and then call them a POS when they fail.


Obviously ... and that goes for anything that requires maintenance, including a wife or girlfriend ... and some have higher maintenance than others.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: stchman

I am not a mechanic nor a petroleum/lubrication engineer, but in the 7 years I worked in the quick-lube industry I can say I saw more than my share of people not changing the oil until the engine light came on, the engine started smoking, the engine rattled real bad, etc.


That was due to LOW oil ... even if the oil was brand new and low it could smoke an engine.


I was trying to make the point that there are MANY folks out there that don't take care of their cars and then call them a POS when they fail.


Obviously ... and that goes for anything that requires maintenance, including a wife or girlfriend ... and some have higher maintenance than others.

So in your opinion are Purloator PureOne oil filters the best filters on the market from an efficiency standpoint.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: stchman

So in your opinion are Purloator PureOne oil filters the best filters on the market from an efficiency standpoint.


Yep ... PureOne is the most efficient filter and bang for the buck I keep coming back to. The Fram Ultra is my 2nd favorite right now for longer OCIs.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1566061&page=1

µm -- Efficiency -- Beta Ratio
-----------------------------
5 -- 51.3% -- 2.054
10 -- 92.8% -- 13.9
15 -- 99.20% -- 125
20 -- 99.9% -- 1000
25 -- 100% -- Infinity
30 -- 100% -- Infinity
40 -- 100% -- Infinity

B = Beta Ratio
(B-1)/B x 100 = Efficiency %

And yes, it does flow well ... despite all the false internet rumors that it's "restrictive to flow".
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

 

[artificialist]

I use an RP filter and a Filtermag. I have no problems.