Ferrari Enzo 2003, 1,400 mi Shell Helix Racing 60 wt.
- Thread starter AEHaas
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I am just a casual observer here who doesn't really know anything about engines or oil. However, I noticed in this post that the engine has Nikasil liners. BMW had an engine with Nikasil liners that had considerable problems in the U.S. because of the high sulfur content of our fuel here.
Please check out this link describing the Nikasil problem at this BMW website. This was a serious problem that caused BMW to extend the factory warranty to 100K at a considerable cost to them.
BMW World
1. This UOA in and of itself should not be used to draw conclusions. Consecutive UOA's should be done for comparison purposes.
2. I'm sure Ferrari has done it's homework.
3. This grade is NOT an "odd" recommendation at all. It's the 'standard' racing grade in Europe. Same factory recommendation holds true for BWM M cars. You can buy this grade OTC.
4. A 10W is not "too thick" at start-up anywhere in FL any time of the year.
2. I'm sure Ferrari has done it's homework.
3. This grade is NOT an "odd" recommendation at all. It's the 'standard' racing grade in Europe. Same factory recommendation holds true for BWM M cars. You can buy this grade OTC.
4. A 10W is not "too thick" at start-up anywhere in FL any time of the year.
So...do they all shear down 2 grades in 1400 miles?
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There has to be a true racing purpose to this oil ..one where it's changed every 200-500 miles. Otherwise, it's a waste of money (admittedly a moot point where a detailing costs $500 and you need a FBI photo and fingerprint clearance before you're allowed to do it). If a 40 weight is good from 1400-5000 (or whatever the recommended OCI is) ..then a 40 weight should be good from 0-5000 (or whatever) miles as long as it stays one.
If a 60wt is shearing down wouldn't a 40wt do the same?
But if you go down to xW40 or xW50 there's more options available.
Aren't 10W60 "race" oils high in sulfated ash like HDEO's? I think Castrol TWS is. Wouldn't be good for Nikasil linings?
Have any Ferrari people tried the Castrol TWS (BMW), Liqui-Moly (Lubro-Moly), Agip, Millers CFS, or Greddy 10W60's?
Motul 300V or Redline 15W50? Torco, Maxima, or Castrol Syntec 5W50?
http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=31634
Some Supra guys talking about 10W60's.
But if you go down to xW40 or xW50 there's more options available.
Aren't 10W60 "race" oils high in sulfated ash like HDEO's? I think Castrol TWS is. Wouldn't be good for Nikasil linings?
Have any Ferrari people tried the Castrol TWS (BMW), Liqui-Moly (Lubro-Moly), Agip, Millers CFS, or Greddy 10W60's?
Motul 300V or Redline 15W50? Torco, Maxima, or Castrol Syntec 5W50?
http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=31634
Some Supra guys talking about 10W60's.
Many times, higher viscosity oils are used because of excessive fuel dilution. I believe I read on Motul's website that many in LeMans racing run a 10w-60 or 15w-50 simply for that reason. By the end of the race, the oil could be a 30wt.
I would hope that Ferrari and Shell know what oil is best for this engine. I'd assume they are thinking that most that drive Ferrari's, are driving them fast.
I would hope that Ferrari and Shell know what oil is best for this engine. I'd assume they are thinking that most that drive Ferrari's, are driving them fast.
Not if it was a well built oil.
The most interesting part in that thread was the 3.7 HTHS for the 10w60. Sounds like it's loaded with cheap VII. Probably drops down to a Xw40 in short order just like this Ferrari oil.
If that 10w60 was cheap, sounds like something I would use for a beater car with bad seals and/or valve guide seals thats not worth fixing.
Looking over the parts diagram it seems that variable timing is present but I cannot find a description of how it works in the volumes of service literature.
This engine is smooth as silk at idle, on the road and at top RPM. A lot of big bore engines are slow to burst the RPM. This engine is so well balanced and light that it blips more as a high RPM racing motorcycle. It reminds me of my 'ol 750 Four Honda of the 1970's.
I have not pulled the covers off the air filters yet but they are huge for sure. If they are as other modern Ferraris I have seen they are sealed well.
aehaas
This engine is smooth as silk at idle, on the road and at top RPM. A lot of big bore engines are slow to burst the RPM. This engine is so well balanced and light that it blips more as a high RPM racing motorcycle. It reminds me of my 'ol 750 Four Honda of the 1970's.
I have not pulled the covers off the air filters yet but they are huge for sure. If they are as other modern Ferraris I have seen they are sealed well.
aehaas
I have the Enzo engine data. Here are some numbers:
Cylinder Liners:
maximum wear of cylinder diameter 0.050 mm
maximum taper 0.015 mm
ovalization 0.300 u
finish roughness level 0.050 mm
Crankshaft:
end float with shimming spacers fitting clearance 0.060 - 0.200 mm
wear limit 0.35 mm
maximum tolerance for main bearing journal’s alignment 0.035 mm
depth of nitriding 0.300 - 0.350 mm
surface hardness of journals and crankpins (HV) Kg/mmq 690 - 850
surface finish 0.20 u
crankshaft main bearing diameter 59 h5 +0 -0.013mm (I am not sure what the “h” stands for)
crankcase seat diameter is 66.675 - 66.681 mm minus the 1/2 bearing’s thickness:
3.838 - 3.843 mm (? each side)
It seems that the clearance here can actually be zero. Maybe the bearing seats compress some on torquing it all together. Or the seat dimensions are full thickness giving a clearance of around 3.5 mm.
I have put in a request for clarification.
aehaas
Cylinder Liners:
maximum wear of cylinder diameter 0.050 mm
maximum taper 0.015 mm
ovalization 0.300 u
finish roughness level 0.050 mm
Crankshaft:
end float with shimming spacers fitting clearance 0.060 - 0.200 mm
wear limit 0.35 mm
maximum tolerance for main bearing journal’s alignment 0.035 mm
depth of nitriding 0.300 - 0.350 mm
surface hardness of journals and crankpins (HV) Kg/mmq 690 - 850
surface finish 0.20 u
crankshaft main bearing diameter 59 h5 +0 -0.013mm (I am not sure what the “h” stands for)
crankcase seat diameter is 66.675 - 66.681 mm minus the 1/2 bearing’s thickness:
3.838 - 3.843 mm (? each side)
It seems that the clearance here can actually be zero. Maybe the bearing seats compress some on torquing it all together. Or the seat dimensions are full thickness giving a clearance of around 3.5 mm.
I have put in a request for clarification.
aehaas
Hey AEHaas, your ferrari has a slightly longer stroke than my KLZE 323
Amen.
First, a HUGE thanks to you for helping me through your excellent writings and postings here and on Fchat. Of course i can not say for sure about the wear, but my suspicions are startup wear. Of course the only way to know for sure is to switch oils and compare UOA. Have a sneaking suspicions Ferrari uses the Shell 60 weight as they expected it to sheer down from usage.
The Mobil 0W-40 i use in the Euro 308GTS QV sheers down to a high 30 weight after a mere 3 hours of track use, pressure is fine as the oil temp is at 95C to 105C MAX due to proper cooling. Would have never tried a 0W if it was not for you and truly appreciate your excellent work.
That's me. see UOAs below. All UOA are using Mobil 1 0W-40.
#1 Noted bad air filtration below. Also, used this oil for TOO MANY track days (about 6) where rpm went over 7k quite a bit. UOA done by Spectrum Labs
#2 Fixed the air filtration situation and had fresh oil and filter, then ran it for four days (approx 5 hours) at Watkins Glen International. Done by Spectrum Labs
A couple of days at NHIS (Louden NH) and two at Lime Rock Park for Ferrari Historic races. About 4 hours total track time but 1 hour was at low(ish) rpm due to heavy rains and track conditions. Done by Blackstone.
It appears to me Spectrum Labs' UOA are a bit more critical at finding things than Blackstone.
The "h5" is a class of iso tolerance, mainly used to defining the tolerances for shafts and bearings. For a 59mm bearing the h5 tolerance is +0/-.013.
how close is your Enzo's mileage to OCI time?
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