Ferrari Enzo 2003, 1,400 mi Shell Helix Racing 60 wt.

[buster]

It's Ferrari raping the consumer, pure and simple. I'm sure you can fool most Ferrari owner's into believing that you need to run this special $60qt oil.

Correction. Sorry Johnny you are correct.

[ September 18, 2006, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Johnny]

It ain't Shell raping the consumer, it's Ferrari. There the one's that marked it up to that price. Go to the dealer and buy a liter, it even has their little horse on the label.

 

[AEHaas]

It is pointless to talk about Shell or Ferrari.

Is wear occurring because the oil was too thick as in the start up period? This is the time when this car is mostly run. Or is the wear because of the oil having been too thin during the drive after the start up period after having sheared down? These are the questions that need answers.

aehaas

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
Is wear occurring because the oil was too thick as in the start up period? This is the time when this car is mostly run. Or is the wear because of the oil having been too thin during the drive after the start up period after having sheared down? These are the questions that need answers.

---

I think it's the former rather than the latter. And I think your upcoming UOA will clearly show that.

 

[buster]

You pointed out two possible variables. What about the oil quality? What are the normal wear patterns for this engine? Have you contacted Ferrari or someone that knows anything about these engines? Not all engines wear or show low wear. Could be just the nature of the beast.
You have other options such as M1 15w-50, Amsoil 20w-50 or a RL 5w-40.

 

[Gary Allan]

He's going to use GC. His neighbor is probably going to continue to use UH

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

This UOA offers plenty of evidence that thinner weights are more than sufficient for wear control. ...thank to the technologies of the last 15 years. Looking forward to the GC UOA!

 

[427Z06]

I'm going to agree with G-Man, and, predict the GC will do a lot better.

Too bad we didn't know more about this engine, like various dimensions, to include bearings, clearances, surface finishes, reciprocating weights, valvetrain design, etc, etc.
Combustion pressures are limited by gasoline characteristics. This would give some indication whether really thick oil is needed.

 

[Big John]

So are we on the brink of thinner is better?????

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Big John:
So are we on the brink of thinner is better?????

---

Perhaps, but we're not talking 20wt thin here...rather upper 30wt range. So it's not that thin all in all...

 

[Geoff]

Although 10w-60 seems an odd recommendation, Ferrari of all manufacturers should be right on with oil choice. I'd still like to know if there are any mitigating factors here.

Ie,

- Is the engine considered broken in?
- Does the engine sit for long periods creating the opportunity for rust or corrosion to develop?
- Is the car operated in salt air?
- How is it driven? Does the owner nail it or lug it at low revs, stressing the bearing lubrication?
- Is the engine revved repeatedly after starting "to warm it up"?

 

[AEHaas]

The only technical data I have from the Enzo service manual is:
5.99 L 65 degree V12
B&S- 3.62 x 2.96
Compression 11.2:1
Nikasil liners, (7) 2.32 inch dia. main journal bearings
with titanium connecting rods

I put a call into Ferrari of North America to see if clearance data is available.

The double overhead cams are direct acting. Max RPM 8,400.

aehaas

 

[AEHaas]

Whereas my neighbor’s car has about 9,000 miles mine only has 2,000. They are both 2003 Enzos. The 399 worldwide were all made as a 2003 MY. None of our cars go for more than 2 - 3 weeks before use on the road. We never fire them up and then rev and shut them down as some others might do to impress people. The engine does start up and rev for about 30 seconds by itself at around 2,500 RPM. The sound is deafening in the garage. It takes about 2 minutes after starting to get out of the sub division before you can step on it.

We drive similarly, gunning it after a 5 minute ride but I always have a less thick oil in all my cars during this start up period. Salt air is not a problem as we may be near the coast but nowhere near wave action and spray. The humidity is always around 70 - 100 percent around here. This is known to be an independint factor for engine wear.

I generally run around town in traffic at 1,500 to 2,000 RPM and he runs his around 2,500 to 3,000 RPM. He may step on it a little more often but he hates really high sustained RPM. I like to just drive down the road at 8,000 RPM at times just to feel the purr.

aehaas

 

[benjamming]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
I like to just drive down the road at 8,000 RPM at times just to feel the purr.

aehaas

---

but that must be quite a feeling!
Tell us about the air filters such as I'm sure it's sealed real well but just wondering if you have looked at 'em.

 

[marco246]

"The engine does start up and rev for about 30 seconds by itself at around 2,500 RPM."

That can't be good for it. Done no doubt to control emissions but perhaps a source of the wear metals. If so, then (as many here have observed) your GC should do better.

As for the shearing, there's UOA data on this board showing that Ferrari 3.0 and 3.2 liter V-8s shear the devil out of M1 0W-40. So it comes as no surprise to learn that the Enzo, with a vastly more powerful V-12, shears the Shell 10W-60. It may shear any oil you run in it.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by marco246:
"The engine does start up and rev for about 30 seconds by itself at around 2,500 RPM."

That can't be good for it. Done no doubt to control emissions ...

---

It's probably more to do with the radical cam profiles (I'm assuming this thing doesn't have variable valve timing) and the fact that the engine probably won't idle on a cold start because of the radical valve timing.

 

[Laminar Lou]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:
It's probably more to do with the radical cam profiles (I'm assuming this thing doesn't have variable valve timing) and the fact that the engine probably won't idle on a cold start because of the radical valve timing.

---

Actually, it has variable valve timing (but that would have been my guess too). It's quite a work of art. howstuffworks.com even mentions it:

Look at the very bottom of the page

pretty cool, eh?

 

[AEHaas]

Looking over the parts diagram it seems that variable timing is present but I cannot find a description of how it works in the volumes of service literature.

This engine is smooth as silk at idle, on the road and at top RPM. A lot of big bore engines are slow to burst the RPM. This engine is so well balanced and light that it blips more as a high RPM racing motorcycle. It reminds me of my 'ol 750 Four Honda of the 1970's.

I have not pulled the covers off the air filters yet but they are huge for sure. If they are as other modern Ferraris I have seen they are sealed well.

aehaas

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas:
The engine does start up and rev for about 30 seconds by itself at around 2,500 RPM.

---

I've commented about this before with my Chrysler. The 3.5 HO does the same thing, but not for 30 seconds. It starts and immediately revs to 2500 for a split second and then settles down to a normal idle. It drives me nuts, but I'm a lot more comfortable with it since I've been using 5w20. Nevertheless, if it was for 30 seconds, I'd really be bonkers.

 

[Geoff]

Thanks for the response AEHaas. Perhaps the emissions based fast idle is relevant. Revs at 2500 rpm on a completely cold engine cannot be a good thing. Our cars hold at about 1600 rpm.

Based on this fact alone, your choice of 0w-30 would be a good idea.

BTW, doing some brief research (check), the vvt system is hydraulic using part of the oil circuit. The f430 apparently uses the same system. If true, viscosity could be important.