F-15E Weapons Systems Operator Located and Extricated from Iran

[Pew]

There's only one reality of 47 years advocating/vowing "death to America and death to Israel" and developing a nuclear weapon and delivery system fully capable of executing that intent.

Threats of "death to america" is the only one that matters. The latter doesn't.

Either way, we used Iraq/Saddam as a buffer against Iran. No more of the former, means more of the latter but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[slo town]

You probably don't know the shia philosophy very well. The martyrdom is for defense, not offense.

In any case, had Iran done what it is accused of, it would have been a deterrent for the current events. The murdered religious leader had prohibited nuclear weapons but I'm afraid the constraint might be gone.

Define defense and offense.

With respect to the Shia philosophy, I conclude it hasn't been very effective given the region's centuries long tribalism. Look no further than the Iraqi/Iranian war.

Scott

 

[slo town]

Either way, we used Iraq/Saddam as a buffer against Iran. No more of the former, means more of the latter but hindsight is 20/20.

THIS^^^^. Taking Iraq out of the equation will likely be remembered as one of the biggest strategic blunders in history.

Scott

 

[Vil_Riker]

Define defense and offense.

With respect to the Shia philosophy, I conclude it hasn't been very effective given the region's centuries long tribalism. Look no further than the Iraqi/Iranian war.

Scott

It hasn't been very effective but it is what it is. They've always been the underdogs.

 

[Pew]

THIS^^^^. Taking Iraq out of the equation will likely be remembered as one of the biggest strategic blunders in history.

Scott

Yea it turns out we removed the only person they hate more than USA and Israel. It's almost like a movie plot, where the only thing stopping a crazy person is a crazier person.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Yea it turns out we removed the only person they hate more than USA and Israel. It's almost like a movie plot, where the only thing stopping a crazy person is a crazier person.

Saddam was a bad dude, but other than his war crimes and evil sons/corruption, the country seemed pretty well run, and definitely much more peaceful than now.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

What's the alternative, wait till Iran has a nuke? Kicking the can down the road won't work, action now is the lesser of 2 evils IMHO.

How about supporting moderates within the regime, re-opening diplomatic relations. Since the 1920's the British and then the US had been actively subverting the will of the people in order to preserve access to oil. We've been paying for this mistake since 1980.

 

[Owen Lucas]

How about supporting moderates within the regime, re-opening diplomatic relations. Since the 1920's the British and then the US had been actively subverting the will of the people in order to preserve access to oil. We've been paying for this mistake since 1980.

That's beyond my pay grade, but I think that's what our backchannels are trying to do AFAIK. Supposedly their speaker of the house or whatever they call him was receptive to our demands initially. That didn't pan out it seems and the latest update via Pakistan is Iran will open up the strait if we pay reparations, allow them to have a missile program, lift all sanctions, and close all nearby US bases.

 

[ripcord]

How about supporting moderates within the regime, re-opening diplomatic relations. Since the 1920's the British and then the US had been actively subverting the will of the people in order to preserve access to oil. We've been paying for this mistake since 1980.

There are no moderates within the regime from a Western liberal democratic perspective.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

That's beyond my pay grade, but I think that's what our backchannels are trying to do AFAIK. Supposedly their speaker of the house or whatever they call him was receptive to our demands initially. That didn't pan out it seems and the latest update via Pakistan is Iran will open up the strait if we pay reparations, allow them to have a missile program, lift all sanctions, and close all nearby US bases.

We had opportunities over the last 26 years or more.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

There are no moderates within the regime from a Western liberal democratic perspective.

Yet MBS is best buds.

 

[ripcord]

Yet MBS is best buds.

They're not equivalent

 

[4wd]

Yea it turns out we removed the only person they hate more than USA and Israel. It's almost like a movie plot, where the only thing stopping a crazy person is a crazier person.

Who are you calling crazy?

 

[Pew]

Who are you calling crazy?

My ex! But she was good crazy, not Saddam crazy thankfully.

 

[fdcg27]

THIS^^^^. Taking Iraq out of the equation will likely be remembered as one of the biggest strategic blunders in history.

Scott

I've been saying this for years.
Removing the government of Iraq destabilized all of the Middle East.

 

[dnewton3]

we're done with all the politics, etc and way off the OPs topic
locked.