EV sales rise in California bucking claims of dwindling demand

[Trav]

You cant believe what you read, this feces hole of a state is rated #1 in the country. If that is the case I hate to see the rest of the country.
MA is as close to hades as you can get without making the trip.

What is the #1 best state to live in 2023?


Massachusetts

Massachusetts topped 2023's list, scoring 61 out of 100. New Jersey came in second. New Hampshire, New York, and Wyoming fill out the rest of the top five states to live in, in that order. Several Southern states – Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas, among others – rounded out the bottom of WalletHub's rankings.1 day ago

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/11/01/best-state-to-live-in-2023/71395336007/

 

[Furious]

EV sales have increased a lot over the years, and whether we like it or not EV is the future.

But while gas engines are still an option obviously people like me and a huge portion of other people are going to continue to buy them over EV. The only way EV will begin to dominate the market is when manufacturers stop producing gas engines.

California has upcoming bans as well as other states and other countries so when those bans come into play that is when manufacturers will begin the full switch over and that is when EV will start to dominate the market.

 

[BLND1]

EV sales have increased a lot over the years, and whether we like it or not EV is the future.

But while gas engines are still an option obviously people like me and a huge portion of other people are going to continue to buy them over EV. The only way EV will begin to dominate the market is when manufacturers stop producing gas engines.

California has upcoming bans as well as other states and other countries so when those bans come into play that is when manufacturers will begin the full switch over and that is when EV will start to dominate the market.

Maybe.

In practice we’ve seen similar types of bans be postponed for indefinite periods as political forces kick the can down the road. EV tech as it currently stands is likely NOT the future.

The rosy picture presented my most EV owners (themselves often with similar political and social-economic leanings) is an artifact of the honeymoon stage.

Decrease in gas taxes and a wholesale reduction in tax base from reduced domestic oil and gas production will have profound effects on the markets and tax horizons.

Per mile taxes, grid load surcharges, ad Infinitum (if there is one thing california does well it’s find ways to tax it’s residents) and all kinds of other intrusive government tech to enforce those taxes will inevitably come down the line.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I thought they had climbed into 4th place?

Depends on timing and how you count the numbers. I think Germany is right now, but it is close and CA continues to grow.

 

[JeffKeryk]

That is where your thinking is badly skewed or you are trolling for a argument. Drill baby drill. LOL

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/images/petroleum_spaghetti_2020.pdf

Sorry to burst your bubble, but crude oil is a global commodity that's traded in markets around the world.
The majority of California's crude oil is imported from Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Colombia.

 

[dubber09]

How long would one have to wait for an ICE car they wanted? Some are over a year now. Tesla? 2 weeks or so. These are numbers from where I am. If one is in need of a car now and cannot wait 18 months they may end up getting a Tesla... just saying...

 

[Twinturbski36]

looks Like propaganda to me…

 

[BLND1]

How long would one have to wait for an ICE car they wanted? Some are over a year now. Tesla? 2 weeks or so. These are numbers from where I am. If one is in need of a car now and cannot wait 18 months they may end up getting a Tesla... just saying...

Wut.

ICE Dealer lots are full with very few exceptions. Have been for some time.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The tip over point when CA starts taxing by the mile will be unpleasant for EV owners. California is subsidizing adoption and will smack y’all with the door on the way out with mileage taxes.

oil companies are one of the largest tax payers in the state.

Why would by-the-mile be worse for EVs? Not sure I follow...

 

[dubber09]

Not in Canada, some cars are 18+ mos to deliver. My boss and another guy at work just got Teslas since they couldn't get cars they wanted, within at least a year.
Cali and US may be a diff story.

 

[Wingo]

If the climate is conducive to an EV, great. Sub zero temps where I live mean an absolute no. When you live in the boonies like I do, losing power and becoming stranded can be life or death.

 

[BLND1]

Why would by-the-mile be worse for EVs? Not sure I follow...

Apologies - EV’s are currently in a regulatory and incentive bubble. California will come down hard to recoup tax losses from the transition and I think we’ll see far more taxes levied than just per mile.

Simply saying that the current rosy picture will turn into a June gloom once the pivot occurs.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Apologies - EV’s are currently in a regulatory and incentive bubble. California will come down hard to recoup tax losses from the transition and I think we’ll see far more taxes levied than just per mile.

Simply saying that the current rosy picture will turn into a June gloom once the pivot occurs.

The picture is not rosy, which is why I asked. I pay a lot of tax on my Model 3 annual registration. Per mile could be more equitable. It is nearly 6 years old and has maybe 16K on the clock.

I always wonder how the per-mile calculation might work. How do they know where I am driving?
All good. We can't escape the governor's tax!

 

[Trav]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but crude oil is a global commodity that's traded in markets around the world.
The majority of California's crude oil is imported from Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Colombia.

What are you talking about, the USA was a net exporter before...
Do you even remember what you are posting? You said...

Maybe we should cut all the big oil subsidies; everyone would be buying an EV!

To which I replied..

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/images/petroleum_spaghetti_2020.pdf

Just show you how economically devastating that would be to the country. Removing the subsidy from EV harms no one.

 

[BLND1]

The picture is not rosy, which is why I asked. I pay a lot of tax on my Model 3 annual registration. Per mile could be more equitable. It is nearly 6 years old and has maybe 16K on the clock.

I always wonder how the per-mile calculation might work. How do they know where I am driving?
All good. We can't escape the governor's tax!

Agreed,

I would expect a variety of surcharges based on usage would be applied in combination (and ever increasing unfortunately).

First is that the annual reg won’t go away. Equitable ain’t in Sacramento’s lexicon.

A couple ways off hand:
1. Registration based mileage reporting/inspection.
2. Nasty tracking software mandated by ca.gov.
3. Supercharger surcharges

The real per mile kicker would be a tiered or ramped system for per mileage charges. X amount after 5 miles per day, y amount after 25 per day, etc. The curtailment of travel could be substantial and of course would completely devastate the less economically sound segments of our population - read most. That type of control is truly frightening.

And several more with nastygram .gov intrusions. Lots of potential for immense data and tracking grabs. Less than rosy, for sure.

 

[alarmguy]

Can California carry the EV industry?

No, 14 million cars in one state is not going to carry a whole industry and that’s being generous that all 14 million people are going to own an EV. Even if they did that would not happen overnight and in the next 50 years.

 

[BLND1]

No

China could. The amount of coal they’ll burn to do it will be laughable.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What are you talking about, the USA was a net exporter before...
Do you even remember what you are posting? You said...


To which I replied..



Just show you how economically devastating that would be to the country. Removing the subsidy from EV harms no one.

If you read my post #8 about oil subsidies, you would understand the entire post was tongue in cheek. LOL.

My other point is, oil is sold on the world market. The US is a top producer and influencer.
And yes, the world runs on oil; they got us by the short hairs. That is not a good thing, as history has shown time and time again.

 

[Torrid]

You can get away with it for a while.

I'm sure you've never done something slightly questionable in a vehicle for personal entertainment.

 

[Trav]

Sure I have but it was legal to go as fast as you want. He is in MA, where are you using it on bad streets full of bad pot holes and cops hiding all over the place. Vomit inducing acceleration, rocket ship, I think not, this is going fast.