EV sales rise and key revenue from gas tax plunges

[SC Maintenance]

Every tax on earth is progressive.

• Income taxes are directly progressive.
• Social security tax is indirectly progressive - the more you pay in - the less you get back based on the standard actuarial tables. Look it up.
• Nicer house - you pay more property tax but get the same services as the shack next door.
• Sales tax - buy more pay more.

Afford an EV / pay more taxes. Its no different really.

There are no "fare" , or more specifically - based on use - taxes. There all based on ability to pay.

 

[Torrid]

You think a one time fee of $200 is exorbitant?

Try paying $3,000/year to own that Tesla in Virginia, where you get levied property tax on your car, based on Blue Book value.

Take a look:

https://cor.virginiabeach.gov/vehicles/personal-property

I am being generous, by the way, a $100,000 car pays $4,000 in property tax.

I‘m surprised California hasn’t taken that route, quite honestly.

There needs to be a simple road use tax, pay for what you use. A few cents a mile for every mile driven, and that shortfall would be made up.

I’ve lived in states that do value based tags. That wasn’t the question here. We’d all be paying it and it still wouldn’t cover the gas tax. Again a certain member here doesn’t realize Road Tax = Gas Tax.

 

[supton]

Also keep in mind the EV owner is getting a free ride at the cost of ICE owners when it comes to the Federal Tax of 18.4 cents a gallon.

I thought that was the discussion, with Torrid et al pointing out that at registration they get hit with a $200 EV fee that ICE doesn't have.

$200/$0.184 is 1,086 gallons of gasoline. At 25mpg that represents some 27kmiles. Ergo... his complaint that he pays more than his "missing" gasoline tax would indicate.

Now if the gov isn't taking that registration fee and dropping it into the bucket of money that gasoline taxes go into... well that gets back to your point, that's the fault of the gov.

 

[alarmguy]

I thought that was the discussion, with Torrid et al pointing out that at registration they get hit with a $200 EV fee that ICE doesn't have.

$200/$0.184 is 1,086 gallons of gasoline. At 25mpg that represents some 27kmiles. Ergo... his complaint that he pays more than his "missing" gasoline tax would indicate.

Now if the gov isn't taking that registration fee and dropping it into the bucket of money that gasoline taxes go into... well that gets back to your point, that's the fault of the gov.

The 18 cents is the federal tax on gasoline void of state and local taxes. There is no Federal Tax paid on EVs

In Torrids state each gallon of gasoline sold contains 51 cents in taxes not 18 cents. So you have to redo those numbers.
In rough numbers =
The Gasoline Tax in his state is 33 cents a gallon and another 18 cents in federal tax = 51 cents a gallon. I can not be sure if there is more. Meaning sometimes they're maybe local taxes. So even with this simple number below you have to slice your numbers above by a drastic amount. $200/.51 = 392 gallons of gasoline not 1,086 gallons of gasoline knocking that number below 15,000 miles a year.

Source https://www.thecentersquare.com/wis...cle_ee7b53d6-d532-5464-bf79-7679a95ab4a0.html

Now let's take this a step further to another state I think the highest in the nation, EVs at some point have to make up for this.
CA is at $1.15 a gallon in gasoline taxes! *LOL*

As you can see here EVs are currently getting a break but you can bet, sooner or later the tax man come for you! *LOL* One thing in life we all know! Then just wait, just wait if this battery operated EV thing catches on, wow, you will be subsidizing the upgrade of the electric grid for it and your home electric costs will go through the roof unless we can make the EV owners pay it.

Source = https://www.cbs8.com/article/traffi...rger/509-17522867-a344-4cbc-bc5d-ac617eb21268

 

[SC Maintenance]

If you go back to the original article - the original discussion point of this post, it indicated that California is projected to have a shortfall of gas tax due to EV's. California Gas tax is $0.51 per gallon. Up to this point the California EV registration fee extra was $100. So that equates to about 200 gallons of gas- or about 5000 miles @ 25mpg average.

So my comment in that California must not be charging enough registration fees seems to be accurate - for California.

Other state situations may vary.

 

[Astro14]

I thought that was the discussion, with Torrid et al pointing out that at registration they get hit with a $200 EV fee that ICE doesn't have.

$200/$0.184 is 1,086 gallons of gasoline. At 25mpg that represents some 27kmiles. Ergo... his complaint that he pays more than his "missing" gasoline tax would indicate.

Now if the gov isn't taking that registration fee and dropping it into the bucket of money that gasoline taxes go into... well that gets back to your point, that's the fault of the gov.

18.4 cents/gallon is the Federal cut.

That covers the interstate highway system. However, I suspect he drives on other roads, such as state highways, or local roads.

In @Torrid home state, the state gas tax is about 70cents/gallon so, using your math, his $200 is buying about 225 gallons, representing about 5,600 miles of road use.

Which is, again, an example of significant underpayment of his share of the public service he is using.

Further, that tax is levied by the state of California, which means that the federal government is getting exactly 0 dollars of that so he should be using what, 0 miles of interstate highway?

 

[supton]

Further, that tax is levied by the state of California, which means that the federal government is getting exactly 0 dollars of that so he should be using what, 0 miles of interstate highway?

Fair enough on your other points; I was wrong, But on this point, does anyone split their tax money based on the roads they drive? On toll roads?

 

[alarmguy]

If you go back to the original article - the original discussion point of this post, it indicated that California is projected to have a shortfall of gas tax due to EV's. California Gas tax is $0.51 per gallon. Up to this point the California EV registration fee extra was $100. So that equates to about 200 gallons of gas- or about 5000 miles @ 25mpg average.

So my comment in that California must not be charging enough registration fees seems to be accurate - for California.

Other state situations may vary.

READ post #104 California gas taxes are much higher. I updated it before you saw it I think. CA you pay $1.15 a gallon in Fed (18 cents) and 97 cents in CA taxes

 

[alarmguy]

18.4 cents/gallon is the Federal cut.

That covers the interstate highway system. However, I suspect he drives on other roads, such as state highways, or local roads.

In @Torrid home state, the state gas tax is about 70cents/gallon so, using your math, his $200 is buying about 225 gallons, representing about 5,600 miles of road use.

Which is, again, an example of significant underpayment of his share of the public service he is using.

Further, that tax is levied by the state of California, which means that the federal government is getting exactly 0 dollars of that so he should be using what, 0 miles of interstate highway?

Fair enough on your other points; I was wrong, But on this point, does anyone split their tax money based on the roads they drive? On toll roads?

See post #104. Total CA gas taxes Fed (18 cents) and State (97 cents) are $1.15 a gallon.
As well as the tax in Wisconsin

 

[supton]

See post #104. Total CA gas taxes Fed (18 cents) and State (97 cents) are $1.15 a gallon.

What if he only drives on state roads? The split is fixed, not taking into account any individuals actual usage.

 

[alarmguy]

What if he only drives on state roads? The split is fixed, not taking into account any individuals actual usage.

No tax is determined by what roads you drive on in the USA

 

[demarpaint]

See post #104. Total CA gas taxes Fed (18 cents) and State (97 cents) are $1.15 a gallon.

Talk about sticking it to the man driving an ICE vehicle in CA. My bet is there's more of that to come to push the EV agenda even further in that state. Sad when you come right down to it for people in CA that want no part of an EV. Maybe that's another one of many reasons why people are leaving CA.

 

[Vercingetorix]

No tax is determined by what roads you drive on in the USA

Unless you consider a toll road or bridge as a tax.

 

[alarmguy]

Unless you consider a toll road or bridge as a tax.

Without talking politics, that would be presented to the public as a "Usage Fee"
In the land of the free where I live now I only know one place in two states with a toll and its more a convenience short cut built privately vs. my previous home on Long Island where it can cost $18 to cross a river!

 

[demarpaint]

Without talking politics, that would be presented to the public as a "Usage Fee"
In the land of the free where I live now I only know one place in two states with a toll and its more a convenience short cut built privately vs. my previous home on Long Island where it can cost $18 to cross a river!

Hey now, you could always swim!!!!

 

[Torrid]

18.4 cents/gallon is the Federal cut.

That covers the interstate highway system. However, I suspect he drives on other roads, such as state highways, or local roads.

In @Torrid home state, the state gas tax is about 70cents/gallon so, using your math, his $200 is buying about 225 gallons, representing about 5,600 miles of road use.

Which is, again, an example of significant underpayment of his share of the public service he is using.

Further, that tax is levied by the state of California, which means that the federal government is getting exactly 0 dollars of that so he should be using what, 0 miles of interstate highway?

At about 24mpg using those numbers. It’s a small car and if I was ICE I’m sure I would do north of 30mpg and the car did 6,500 miles.

Unless I’m missing something I see $0.33 a gallon doubling the miles paid for in your example which would be way over my usage. That’s directly from revenue.WI.gov.

 

[SC Maintenance]

What if he only drives on state roads? The split is fixed, not taking into account any individuals actual usage.

I don't think that is the point.

Everyone is supposed to pay fuel tax - which funnels back to someone's general account, which goes to fund roads and bridges, as decided by elected bodies or their minions, supposedly for the benefit of everyone.

Whether I personally get more or less of the infrastructure usage is irrelevant. Do you shop anywhere - so walmart or Amazon - they use the roads for delivery. Do you have an employer that needs roads. I don't imagine many companies setting up shop where there are no roads.

Vis a Vis, its seems EV's are paying significantly less compared to their ICE counterparts - in California at least. To your point a Prius pays less than a Camry, etc, but that variation seems much less.

 

[Audiman]

Tax the electricity that is used to charge EV’s, it’s being used as fuel so if people have to pay tax on gas/ diesel they should on electricity as well. A meeter should be fitted to the charger that can be read and the correct amount charged/ paid.

Even people with solar should have to pay it.

Only other option is remove all tax from gas/ diesel

 

[JeffKeryk]

Every tax on earth is progressive.

• Income taxes are directly progressive.
• Social security tax is indirectly progressive - the more you pay in - the less you get back based on the standard actuarial tables. Look it up.
• Nicer house - you pay more property tax but get the same services as the shack next door.
• Sales tax - buy more pay more.

Afford an EV / pay more taxes. Its no different really.

There are no "fare" , or more specifically - based on use - taxes. There all based on ability to pay.

Which is exactly why I want to pay more taxes.
Plus, there is no "fair"; I gave up on that one a long time ago. Ya win some and ya lose some.

 

[supton]

I don't think that is the point.

I finally see Astro‘s point, on gasoline sales, the money is split, state takes their cut, fed gets theirs. EV reg fee, the state takes all.

I’m a bit dense…