Ethics of Eating Meat

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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Anyone remember the 4 basic food groups?
2 of them were cattle industry driven - Milk and meat.

A famous rylygion book said that we started out as vegetarians, then were told "if it moves, eat it", then there were strict dietary laws, then freedom to eat whatever.
We are living in 'eat whatever' with thanks now.


Could someone please translate the second paragraph into English for me?
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Anyone remember the 4 basic food groups?
2 of them were cattle industry driven - Milk and meat.


I only remember 3 groups as a kid, and milk / meat was in the same group.
 
While I find killing animals and eating them to be distasteful at the very least, what really upsets me is hunting for trophies. Time and time again killing and massacring animals is portrayed as a fun or even a noble activity.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
While I find killing animals and eating them to be distasteful at the very least, what really upsets me is hunting for trophies. Time and time again killing and massacring animals is portrayed as a fun or even a noble activity.



Have you ever taken the time to learn what happens to the meat taken on a "trophy" hunt, especially on the big-budget African hunts?
 
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
While I find killing animals and eating them to be distasteful at the very least, what really upsets me is hunting for trophies. Time and time again killing and massacring animals is portrayed as a fun or even a noble activity.



Have you ever taken the time to learn what happens to the meat taken on a "trophy" hunt, especially on the big-budget African hunts?


It doesn't matter - you are talking about efforts for minimizing the effects of this bloodthirsty behavior. Killing an animal as a trophy is disgusting.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
While I find killing animals and eating them to be distasteful at the very least, what really upsets me is hunting for trophies. Time and time again killing and massacring animals is portrayed as a fun or even a noble activity.



Have you ever taken the time to learn what happens to the meat taken on a "trophy" hunt, especially on the big-budget African hunts?


It doesn't matter - you are talking about efforts for minimizing the effects of this bloodthirsty behavior. Killing an animal as a trophy is disgusting.


To you, yes. To others, no.

The point he's trying to make is that even trophy meat is not wasted. It is typically given to local needy food pantries; donated to the hungry. Does not matter if it happens in Africa, Russia or even the US. Most huners are responsible hunters; they don't waste food. So, in essence, your objection is based upon the fact that the hunter is seeking to increase his joy of the hunt by finding the "best" trophy, all while helping feed others who are not "disgusted" by finding good food on their plate?

You state that you find killing animals to be "distasteful at the very least ...". OK - that's good for you; you are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else. I would presume that you're a vegan? No fish, no seafood, no land animals consumed? I'm fine with that. It's a valid way to feed oneself. But what is your objection based upon? Is it the "killing"? Do you not "kill" plantlife to consume it? If you were to consume grains (which are various forms of grasses) then you are ending the life of a living entity before it's natural passing. You're "killing" plantlife. This is true of all forms of plantlife; fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, etc. Ever eat frozen peas? Harvested before their life has ended. Get it?

So, is your objection based upon the fact that plants don't have "feelings and emotions" but animals do? Am I to believe that you have the ability to judge and discern what is "just and fair" for all living things, while other people do not? Further, I presume you may not have stopped to realize that even plantlife has living microbes on them. When you gently wash off your broccoli, you're not ridding it of ALL living things, you know. So, just because you can't hear the screams of the microbes, like you would of the bleating sheep at slaughter, does NOT mean you're not consuming live organisms. You want to define "life" in just one manner of being, that which is convenient to your way of perception. I find your view of our "disgusting" behavior "shortsighted". You probably don't agree. I see a heaping dose of pious irony here, but maybe it's just me.

Let's all face facts; we must consume other living (or once living) things (in all manners of being) to survive. Some of us are hunters (carnivores), some are gatherers (herbavores). Some us of do both (omnivores).
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Grow up...and take your vegan strawmen along for the ride.
thumbsup2.gif


It's hard to appreciate and understand hunting for what it is until you've actually done it. I'm not talking about hunting varmints or hogs or anything like that. Hunting a big buck increases your understanding and appreciation for the animal and it's ecosystem in a way you couldn't really imagine before. It did for me, anyway. It's connecting with nature in a special way. Now, that's not to say there aren't some idiots on hunting shows or redneck poachers who don't get it. But real hunters do. You shouldn't be so quick to judge.
 
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Grow up...and take your vegan strawmen along for the ride.
thumbsup2.gif

Hunting a big buck increases your understanding and appreciation for the animal and it's ecosystem in a way you couldn't really imagine before. It did for me, anyway. It's connecting with nature in a special way.


Poppycock. You don't have to kill to appreciate an animal (which is quite a bizarre approach to appreciating something). Take a camera and go take pictures if you want to appreciate an animal and its ecosystem.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
While I find killing animals and eating them to be distasteful at the very least, what really upsets me is hunting for trophies. Time and time again killing and massacring animals is portrayed as a fun or even a noble activity.



Have you ever taken the time to learn what happens to the meat taken on a "trophy" hunt, especially on the big-budget African hunts?


It doesn't matter - you are talking about efforts for minimizing the effects of this bloodthirsty behavior. Killing an animal as a trophy is disgusting.


To you, yes. To others, no.

The point he's trying to make is that even trophy meat is not wasted.


So, how often is a lion's meat eaten?
 
Let's chill out for a minute. We are who we are and and we have to eat what our bodies were designed to eat, i.e everything, to survive.


The moment your food becomes "more" than just means of survival and keeping your body healthy, is the moment that perhaps some reflaction should take place, especially if these views are used to judge other peaople.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02

Hunting a big buck increases your understanding and appreciation for the animal and it's ecosystem in a way you couldn't really imagine before. It did for me, anyway. It's connecting with nature in a special way.


Poppycock. You don't have to kill to appreciate an animal (which is quite a bizarre approach to appreciating something). Take a camera and go take pictures if you want to appreciate an animal and its ecosystem.


Balderdash...lol.

He didn't say that at all. What he did say is that it INCREASES your understanding and apprecation. And he is absolutely right. Those of us who are responsible hunters understand a deeper respect for life and the gifts provided by the taking of that life.

I find that most of the hunters I know are very respectfull of nature and the animal kingdom in general. Those of us without sociopathic tendencies understand that it is never all about joy or happiness after a kill, there is always a healthy dose of self reflection and reverence for the now deceased animal. At least that is the way I was raised. I still feel that slight tinge of guilt and respect each and every time I kill an animal for comsumption. But consume them I will.
 
Man i'm getting hungry, looks like TriTip and Chicken this weekend on the "Q"
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
...So, how often is a lion's meat eaten?


Probably every time one is killed. What's your point?
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
So, how often is a lion's meat eaten?



For the sake of the conversation, let's agree to ignore the issue of poaching. Poaching is a terrible act, and vast majorities of hunters despise it. So please let's not muddy the watters with that concept. And with that, I think the mass of us will agree that any form of animal cruelity as defined by local and state and federal laws is out of reasonable bounds as well. Don't lump meat eaters and hunters blindly into those catagories.

As for hunting, be it big game in Africa or small game in the US, most, if not all, of the animal is typically used. And actually, that also goes for mass-produced meats as well. Nearly all the animal is used either for food or byproducts.

I doubt any of us know how much lion meat is consumed, but I suspect, given the cost of legal hunts in Africa in EuroAsia, that nothing is left to waste. No sane person can reasonably consume a rhino or elephant in one sitting, but it can surely feed a village for quite some time.

As for small to moderate game, all of the hunters I know take great pride in using the animal for legitimate purposes; we cherrish the natural resources just as much as others, even if we use it in a slightly different manner.

And let's not turn away from wildlife management issues. I completely agree that some species are a bit rare, but if endangered or threatened, they're not on a legitimate hunt list anyway. And as for "trophy" animals such as deer, they are about 1 herd away from being vermin in most areas. The density is so great in some areas that state parks are being shut down for extra hunting, because the deer are destroying the flora in many areas.

All things in balance. Some choose to not eat meat; fine. Some do; fine. There is no "ethics" in eating. The "ethics" comes into play when you speak of the culling method. As long as it's reasonable and legal (if even disgusting to some) where's the harm? Harvesting food (animal or vegetable) is what we do.
 
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I can't speak to what happens with lions, but here's the deal on elephants:

I friend of mine went on an elephant hunt last year. It cost $50,000 just for the permit, all of which benefits fighting poachers, helping wildlife management efforts, and giving financial aid to the tribe on whose land the elephant was taken. He got to keep the a trophy (consisting of the tusks and skull, and skin on the head) but the rest of the Animal was - and by law had to be - used and preserved by the tribe in a traditional manner. It's no different from what's been happening in Africa for thousands of years, except that now it generates revenue and the animal cannot be wasted, under penalty of law.
 
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Those of us without sociopathic tendencies understand that it is never all about joy or happiness after a kill, there is always a healthy dose of self reflection and reverence for the now deceased animal. At least that is the way I was raised. I still feel that slight tinge of guilt and respect each and every time I kill an animal for comsumption. But consume them I will.


Yes, that's exactly the way I feel. Well said.

Ed
 
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