Engine noise any indication of oil quality?

[Deleted member 89374]

I think a mod deleted one of my reply posts in this thread and I didn't receive a notification.

Would you please re-post the comment that you believe was deleted?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Would you please re-post the comment that you believe was deleted?

I would, but I don't want to get in trouble.

I was just giving @MSCH a bit of a ribbing after he posted his ASE patch collection

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Yes, I got some carbonaceous "paste" in my oil filter (not as extensive as what Wayne has seen, but our truck has lower miles) and the truck (5.7L HEMI) has spent its life on M1 EP 0W-20, which is a PAO-based oil with I'd assume low solvency/polarity. @UncleDave got the same material in his oil filter, in a vehicle that also spent its life on high quality API-compliant synthetics.

The assumption is that this stuff came from the ring land area, due to how dirty the HEMI runs. M1 EP is not advertised as being able to clean, like most API oils, its purpose to maintain cleanliness, which varies in difficulty depending on the engine and operating conditions. Mobil has advertised that M1 FS 0W-40 on the other hand, can clean, which I also experienced on our old Expedition, yielding the same sort of material that Wayne saw in his filter.

IMHO, this highlights some of the formulation constraints placed on API compliant oils, which become less restrictive once you step outside the Resource Conserving grade range (which xW-40 does).

Question: I can see how going up a grade or so on the diluter engines will help prevent oil thinning out too much over the course of the oci. I often wonder though on other engines if we jump up several grades above called for (recommended by manufacturer) how does that affect the pumping , oil pressure and even the heat in the engines? Are we taxing them harder doing that? I recall for ever that 10w40 was the universal. Then they all acted like it was poison! Why? CAFE standards? New designs etc... zz/ Anyone hve ideas?

 

[OVERKILL]

Question: I can see how going up a grade or so on the diluter engines will help prevent oil thinning out too much over the course of the oci. I often wonder though on other engines if we jump up several grades above called for (recommended by manufacturer) how does that affect the pumping , oil pressure and even the heat in the engines? Are we taxing them harder doing that? I recall for ever that 10w40 was the universal. Then they all acted like it was poison! Why? CAFE standards? New designs etc... zz/ Anyone hve ideas?

Fuel economy is the primary driving force behind the pursuit of thinner and thinner oils. Using a grade inappropriate for the prevailing conditions (20W-50 when it's -20C) can be hard on things, but within reason, the main impact will be unnecessary thrashing of the oil sending it through the bypass and some wasted power and fuel (going too thick).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Question: I can see how going up a grade or so on the diluter engines will help prevent oil thinning out too much over the course of the oci. I often wonder though on other engines if we jump up several grades above called for (recommended by manufacturer) how does that affect the pumping , oil pressure and even the heat in the engines? Are we taxing them harder doing that? I recall for ever that 10w40 was the universal. Then they all acted like it was poison! Why? CAFE standards? New designs etc... zz/ Anyone hve ideas?

It's way more critical to use the correct "W" rating of oil for cold pumpability than it is to worry about the pumping of hot thin oil. Besides, there's a reason positive displacement oil pumps are used in engine oiling systems ... to ensure an adequate volume of oil is supplied regardless of the oil viscosity. If the correct W rating for the start-up conditions is used, then adequate oil volume and lubrication will occur, and it will also occur when the oil is hot regardless if it's xW-8 or xW-60.

Some OMs specify a huge range of oil viscosity based on ambient temperature, and they always spec thicker KV100 for hotter climates ... so there is not a concern about thicker oil causing more heat in the engine. Even on air cooled engines, they still specify thicker KV100 for hotter climates, because with all factors involved, thicker oil will provide better engine protection.

 

[camrydriver111]

Since thou art a lazy one, I will oblige the trolls just this once.
A simple search through BITOG yields a lot of similar takes.

There is hardly any difference.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

There is hardly any difference.

There is zero difference.

 

[John105]

I’m skeptical that different oils evoke different sounds from an engine. Just me, I’m not selling any products.

 

[willbur]

Great discussion

 

[SaberOne]

Nope, I don’t believe it does, or at least that’s my semi-educated answer. Now, my Voodoo Doll, Ouija Board answer is yes. When I switched to Redline 5W30 from M1, I clearly noticed the absence of initial lifter noise.

 

[dubber09]

Get good oil, change every 5k miles or 150-200hrs engine run, life is good.

 

[dubber09]

Nope, I don’t believe it does, or at least that’s my semi-educated answer. Now, my Voodoo Doll, Ouija Board answer is yes. When I switched to Redline 5W30 from M1, I clearly noticed the absence of initial lifter noise.

In Yuma AZ you can run 10w-30 vs 5w-30 and your engine will thank you.

 

[SaberOne]

In Yuma AZ you can run 10w-30 vs 5w-30 and your engine will thank you.

That’s not a bad idea, and I don’t know why I haven’t considered that before now.

 

[dubber09]

I ran 15w-40 for most of my '97 VW Jetta's 17 years and 375k km life in the past before trading it in for the 'tage, worked for me and the car. Just do oil and filer changes on regular basis, like 5-7k miles as the least.

 

[ArthurArgentum]

I’m skeptical that different oils evoke different sounds from an engine. Just me, I’m not selling any products.

When it comes to lubricants sound, there are a couple of interesting links worth checking out. There are two guys who are really into this stuff..
Now, in the big world of lubricants (and I mean worldwide, no exaggeration), there's this "super celebrity" specialist named Dr. Boris Zhmud. He's a tribologist. Not only that, but he's also a bigwig in a company that's all about creating top-notch German blending Bizol, just like the famous Liqui Moly (Bizol was linked somehow to LM). Here's the thing: Boris wrote this quirky, kind of scientific advertisement for his company's oil, and it's pretty interesting. It's all about the "sound of oils."

Does Motor Oil Influence Engine Noise? Yes, It Does!

Article of Prof. Dr. Boris Zhmud, Head of R&D, BIZOL Germany GmbH

www.bizol.com

But hold on, there's more. We have another well-known guy in the local PCMO community named Sergey-bmwservice. Now, Sergey is quite a character and a true expert when it comes to testing oils. I already mentioned his take on LSPI and let me tell you, this guy has some cool thoughts about oils.

LSPI Concern for GDI Non - Turbo Engine ?

Near as I can tell, Dexos 1 Gen 2 SN+ has been replaced by D1 G3 SP. The "sell down" period of D1G2 ended last year. So, there's no point in discussing old approvals that are no longer on store shelves. IMO, choosing an oil thick enough to stay out of the combustion chamber in the first place...

bobistheoilguy.com

So guess what Sergey did? He decided to put Boris Zhmud's claims to the test in real-life situations (you might need Google Translate to understand it all) -

BIZOL: масло Потише(tm)

Начало было примерно тут: https://t.me/bmwservicemoscow/2617 Как вы знаете, многим настоящим любителям современных масел мало просто масла с самым лучшим допуском. Им подавай только лучшее из лучших масел с лучшим допуском. Если NOACK, то хоть на полпроцента, но ниже! Если, скажем,…

bmwservice.livejournal.com

He even measured the noise level of this supposedly special, super quiet oil that Boris talked about in his somewhat scientific article.
So there you have it. Some genuinely nice stuff happening in the world of oils, thanks to Boris Zhmud and Sergey-bmwservice.

 

[camrydriver111]

M1 is one of the best oils but its also one of the loudest.

So noise is not necessarily indicative of quality.

 

[hemioiler]

M1 is one of the best oils but its also one of the loudest.

So noise is not necessarily indicative of quality.

That goes completely against common sense. While the reverse is true (a "quiet oil" is not indicative in and of itself of total quality), a loud oil cannot be a quality oil considering what makes the noise in the first place (engine bits hammering into eachother).

 

[camrydriver111]

That goes completely against common sense. While the reverse is true (a "quiet oil" is not indicative in and of itself of total quality), a loud oil cannot be a quality oil considering what makes the noise in the first place (engine bits hammering into eachother).

Yes, in general running synthetic seems to be louder than running conventional, but synthetic provides better protection.

A lot of things happen at the molecular level.

 

[JimmyChainsaw]

Have been watching this site for 15 years,maybe longer.I don't know how many times someone has changed their oil and found the engine became noisier.In most cases the oil used was Mobil 1.My own experience is with Amsoil ACD.Had a Nissan ute with a 2.7 diesel engine.The original drum was very old and this oil made the engine noticeably noisier.When it was used up l bought a much newer drum of the same.The engine became a lot quieter,I can only assume the formulation changed and now incorporated a lot more group 3 and less POA.My conclusion is that oils with a high POA content will tend to make an engine noisier.Very subjective l know but that's been my experience.

 

[gregk24]

Everybody carries a sound meter around with them these days (also known as a smart phone) but nobody posts any data. I've always found that interesting.

I did this with a recent oil change on my moms 2017 GMC Terrian. The new oil dropped the sound by 2 decibels.