Engine Break-In - Found the answer

[StarCaller]

Quote
they think differently than North Americans, lots of planning and theory done before execution, versus the NA approach of getting into the problem, shirt sleeves rolled up, right away and finding a solution after multiple attempts.


with some machinery you have only one attempt /

 

[gfh77665]

My 2019 RAM advised "brief" acceleration to near the top of the RPM range (without redlining) then allowing the vehicle to decelerate back to low RPM's. I followed it, and did a preemptive OC at 1000 miles.

 

[bobdoo]

I read an article a long time ago, I think in Cycle Magazine, by Gordon Jennings, I think, that discussed ring breakin.

Heavy throttle application near the torque peak RPM, for a second or so at a time, 20 seconds off-throttle. This would literally break off the peaks left by honing the cylinder.

In some way, similar to mototune.

I have done this on over 10 cycles, 6 cars, 5 snowmobiles. I had a timing belt replaced on my 2000 Outback, 125,000ish miles. Asked the tech to check compression. He told me afterwards that he had to check comp twice, as he didn't believe how high and even it was. IIRC 135ish PSI.

OBTW, I test-drove this car when it was brand-new. Was trading-in a modded Mitsu Eclipse AWD turbo. Wanted to know if I could deal with half the power. Ran it to 125ish MPH WOT all the way. Subaru shock damping produces very severe porpoising at 125ish MPH!

 

[paoester]

Originally Posted by VNTS
I follow Mototune method on the brand newones. Prefer to seat the rings better, and yes Jeep indirectly says breif full throttle acceleration within limits of the law and varying RPM constitutes good break in right in the owners manual for break in.
"Brief" full throttle acceleration shouldn't be long enough to create hot spots you would think.

Still Volkswagen (2019 Tiguan OM) says:

Break-in period
A new engine must be carefully broken in during the first 1000 miles (1600 kilometers). During the first few hours of driving, the engine's internal friction is higher than later when all moving parts have been broken in.

Breaking in a new engine
Do not use full throttle.
Don't let the engine speed get above 2/3 of the maximum speed.
Do not tow a trailer.
Speed may gradually be increased to maximum permissible road and engine speed.
Engine life is influenced by how you drive the vehicle for the first 1000 miles (1600 km). Even afterwards, driving at moderate engine speeds, especially when the engine is cold, will tend to reduce engine wear and help the engine to last longer and go farther. But do not drive at an excessively low engine speed, either. Always downshift if the engine is not running smoothly.


I've already done the Jeep-Mototune method discussed above by VNTS, on my '19 Tiguan low-performance car. I hit high RPM briefly in its first 200 miles. I don't think it will hurt it. After all, the rings should twist in their seats, spending about ~equal time on all parts of the rounded face, where twist amount is governed by load & rpm ranges.
Some engine makers think moly cuts down on those hot areas.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
So it seems they're circulating warm water in the engine to help speed up the warmup process and the dyno test run lasts about 30 minutes and they also go to 80% RPM in several increments. I would imagine the engine is at full operating temp after about 20 minutes of this. I guess since Porsche engines are packed in the back, the engine can get hotter in some rush hour traffic, but I don't believe in this engineer's statement "When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short.". Never is quite a bold statement. Driving on the streets can mean many, many different things.

And I guess that's the crux of the problem. There are so many variables that manufacturers simply want to play it safe. If they printed that hard break in was allowed, I bet some moron would go out on the highway and go 100mph because he needs to brake in his engine properly. People simply have different understanding and interpretation of things.

Manufacturers don't want to deal with this. So they say take it easy and set the acceptable oil consumption levels really high to minimize warranty expenses.


That is a very good point. I agree.

I find it interesting too that Nissan goes by 1,200 miles. Where did they get that number from? LOL. What if someone does a few WOT at 950 miles? Why not 1,000 miles? Weird.

I just got back from an appointment and just hit 1,200 miles. I gave it a good WOT

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by VNTS
I follow Mototune method on the brand newones. Prefer to seat the rings better, and yes Jeep indirectly says breif full throttle acceleration within limits of the law and varying RPM constitutes good break in right in the owners manual for break in.
"Brief" full throttle acceleration shouldn't be long enough to create hot spots you would think.

Still Volkswagen (2019 Tiguan OM) says:

Break-in period
A new engine must be carefully broken in during the first 1000 miles (1600 kilometers). During the first few hours of driving, the engine's internal friction is higher than later when all moving parts have been broken in.

Breaking in a new engine
Do not use full throttle.
Don't let the engine speed get above 2/3 of the maximum speed.
Do not tow a trailer.
Speed may gradually be increased to maximum permissible road and engine speed.
Engine life is influenced by how you drive the vehicle for the first 1000 miles (1600 km). Even afterwards, driving at moderate engine speeds, especially when the engine is cold, will tend to reduce engine wear and help the engine to last longer and go farther. But do not drive at an excessively low engine speed, either. Always downshift if the engine is not running smoothly.


I've already done the Jeep-Mototune method discussed above by VNTS, on my '19 Tiguan low-performance car. I hit high RPM briefly in its first 200 miles. I don't think it will hurt it. After all, the rings should twist in their seats, spending about ~equal time on all parts of the rounded face, where twist amount is governed by load & rpm ranges.
Some engine makers think moly cuts down on those hot areas.


from jeep, 2015 Manual

ENGINE BREAK-IN RECOMMENDATIONS
A long break-in period is not required for the engine and
drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.
Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km).

While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the
limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in.
Wide-open throttle acceleration in low gear can be detrimental
and should be avoided.

 

[buster]

With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by KGMtech
German Engineers are not the only smart ones, however they think they are. I worked for a German company for 24 years, they think differently than North Americans, lots of planning and theory done before execution, versus the NA approach of getting into the problem, shirt sleeves rolled up, right away and finding a solution after multiple attempts.


IIRC a Toyota spokesperson essentially said the same thing when he spoke about their collaboration with BMW on the Supra.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by buster
With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.


Yes, I agree. I would also add compression braking as a benefit.

And with today's wide spread ratio automatics and CVTs, many engines not only spin at very low RPM, but they also don't do any compression braking, unless in sport mode or manually prompted.

 

[buster]

True Kris. I took the Subaru out last night and put it into manual mode to put some moderate load on the engine.

 

[DGXR]

Porsche engineer's statements contradict the ages-old method of doing a few full heat cycles, this is probably adapting to modern manufacturing and engineering principles. I keep moderate loads and varying RPM during the first few hundred miles, doing an early oil change, then gradually increasing to maximum power and redline runs at around 2,000 miles.

Deceleration (i.e. high vacuum in intake manifold and cylinders) plays a crucial role during the wear-in process.

 

[buster]

For the Nissan, the truck already had 63 miles on it. I was told the test drives are all the same (same one I went on), in which case there is little room for abuse. From the time I picked up the truck to present, I did all short trip/stop and go type driving. I kept rpms between 2k and 4k. I may have hit 5k once. Today I hit Nissan's 1,200 mile break-in mark and did 2 WOT's. At this point what is done is done. I saw no noticeable oil consumption the first 1k miles. EDGE has been in the last 200 miles.

I'm glad I came across this article though. It was the only article (FWIW) where an actual automotive engineer gave some insight into "why" they recommend not exceeding 4k. Like most things in life, moderation is often the best bet.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by DGXR
Porsche engineer's statements contradict the ages-old method of doing a few full heat cycles, this is probably adapting to modern manufacturing and engineering principles. I keep moderate loads and varying RPM during the first few hundred miles, doing an early oil change, then gradually increasing to maximum power and redline runs at around 2,000 miles.

Deceleration (i.e. high vacuum in intake manifold and cylinders) plays a crucial role during the wear-in process.

How do diesel engines break in? I worked at a forklift dealership that leased forklifts, fleet cars, vans, pickups and class 8 vehicles . Engines break in fine without any voodoo. Travis ' post is gospel.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by buster
With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.


Yes, I agree. I would also add compression braking as a benefit.

And with today's wide spread ratio automatics and CVTs, many engines not only spin at very low RPM, but they also don't do any compression braking, unless in sport mode or manually prompted.


Generally referred to as "vacuum pulls." If you can find a road with lots of foot hills and slip the automatic transmission into sport mode or manual mode so it rows down through the gears on decel and engine brakes, that is the Shining City on a Hill to strive for, for nice break-in runs. Goose it up the grade, let Sport Mode engine brake it on the down hill side. Lather, rinse, repeat. Living in the flat lands, could not find such a stretch of road for the GMC and F-150, had to settle for acel/decel runs on long sparsely driven flat roads, a certain stretch of a particular county road saw a lot of our two new vehicles this spring and summer.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by buster
With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.


Yes, I agree. I would also add compression braking as a benefit.

And with today's wide spread ratio automatics and CVTs, many engines not only spin at very low RPM, but they also don't do any compression braking, unless in sport mode or manually prompted.


Generally referred to as "vacuum pulls." If you can find a road with lots of foot hills and slip the automatic transmission into sport mode or manual mode so it rows down through the gears on decel and engine brakes, that is the Shining City on a Hill to strive for, for nice break-in runs. Goose it up the grade, let Sport Mode engine brake it on the down hill side. Lather, rinse, repeat. Living in the flat lands, could not find such a stretch of road for the GMC and F-150, had to settle for acel/decel runs on long sparsely driven flat roads, a certain stretch of a particular county road saw a lot of our two new vehicles this spring and summer.

South Jersey is pretty flat too. I'd have to go up to centra/north Jersey or Pennsylvania to find hills.

 

[loneryder]

I can imagine how frustrating for a new Porsche owner to have to baby it for 2k miles. When I bought my new Harley at Black Hills HD, it was really hard to vary the engine speeds on those wide open roads out there. I was on the 4 lane road going out of Rapid City to Mt. Rushmore. I had been driving the speed limit for a while and it was time to "vary the speed". I was going about 45 and cars were passing me looking at me like I was crazy. Very un natural.LOL

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by DGXR
Porsche engineer's statements contradict the ages-old method of doing a few full heat cycles, this is probably adapting to modern manufacturing and engineering principles. I keep moderate loads and varying RPM during the first few hundred miles, doing an early oil change, then gradually increasing to maximum power and redline runs at around 2,000 miles.

Deceleration (i.e. high vacuum in intake manifold and cylinders) plays a crucial role during the wear-in process.

How do diesel engines break in? I worked at a forklift dealership that leased forklifts, fleet cars, vans, pickups and class 8 vehicles . Engines break in fine without any voodoo. Travis ' post is gospel.


The old German who was chief of cylinder kit engineering at Cummins when I worked there swore that if a new diesel engine was not ramped up to full power within 20 minutes of first start, it would not break in properly.

 

[willbur]

Non pressure fed IMS bearing had nothing to do with it. Undersize bearings that could not handle the load was the culprit. Many Porsche owners changed oil at the recommended OCI of 15K miles which let acid accumulate and eat those undersize bearings, too. Toyota actually designed that car! Porsche needed help to stay alive and asked them to help. Strange world.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted by CT8

How do diesel engines break in? .

I used to get to bring brand new trucks to the yard. I would ride to vegas or Laughlin,NV with another driver. I would take possession of the truck there (saved on California taxes). I would drive over to the yard they had in NV. Hook to a set of trailers ,load them to the max legal 80000lbs and bring it home.

 

[PWMDMD]

The real question - does any of the break-in procedure really matter in the real world? I've owned many many cars from many many manufactures and I have never followed the break-in procedure. I drive the cars, I've never had an engine/transmission/moving part give me an issue related to improper break-in, I sell the car and I get a new car.