Engine Break-In - Found the answer

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted by Cujet

Years ago, I worked for a company that was involved in camshaft development (and a second company that tested 2 stroke marine racing engines) . They dyno stuff was on the automotive side, I assembled engines with OEM parts and the dyno team ran them through a series of tests. Mostly for emissions and of course to meet target output. My job was to assemble the engines to a specification, time the camshafts and install on the dyno. I also disassembled the engines and measured components for wear. We took no care to break in engines. We started them up, warmed them up to 160 degrees coolant temperature and let-er-rip. Often for long periods of time at specific RPM's at full boost. The parts got hotter than they would in any normal car. So I don't believe the Porsche explanation above. The only thing that could possibly match the loading is towing a heavy load up a long hill. Not once did I see something wrong internally. Bearings, rings, cylinders and valves always looked perfect. It is hard to convey just how insignificant any wear was, and how brutal the dyno sessions were. All this talk about break in really leads me to believe that rings "seat" rapidly under load and then normal rates of wear occur. No other parts "break in".

I agree. A fresh engine's parts will remain dimensionally stable for many thousands of miles. I think that a lot of what we hear about can be traced back the days of Model As and Ts where machine work and metallurgy weren't as good as they are today. Just look at the babbitt bearings that they used. Machine them tight - up to about 120lbs rotating torque to turn it over (like so tight the starter couldn't always turn a fresh motor over) and let it wear itself in to where it was happy. Obviously you wouldn't want to take one of those straight to the races.

 

[buster]

 

[buster]

Talked to a guy the other day. Bought his truck brand new and on the test drive he dropped it into 3rd and floored it. Bought the truck and 7 years later has 140k trouble free miles on it.

 

[stockrex]

my 2.5 salty cents - Bought honda fit 2010 brand new with 4 miles on it. broke it in using the motor cycle engine breakin formula - drive it like you stole it. Drove it 100k miles and idled probably for another 50 miles worth. Never using a drop of oil, changed oil 5k to 7 k using synthetic from day 1, filter every 20k miles. That is my very own long term case study. I respectfully do not agree with the youtube video as my experience does not match his hypothesis.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I have had quite a few cars and trucks and have always believed in warming up a new car carefully and then let 'er rip! Just avoid first gear and otherwise get on it. Great example is my sig car, many 6.1 owners gripe about oil usage. The dipstick reading never changes on this one, even after track days with 300 degrees indicated oil temp. The key is to remember you are breaking in a new driveline as well, that's why you may wish to avoid lower gears. My BIL is a 3rd gen expert machinist and he feels that the rotating assembly in a new typical production engine is either right or wrong, and the rings are done breaking in very quickly as well. No reason to fear long pulls in the upper gears as it insures good ring seal. So enjoy the power if you got any, and feel the comfort of full warranty coverage!

 

[buster]

My experience matches what both of you said. All Mazda 3's and the Ram 5.7L were given WOT early on with no oil use in between OCI.

 

[Eddie]

I go with the manufactures recommendations in general. Warm up the engine and drive normally with<span style="font-weight: bold"> brief </span>heavy throttle acceleration, not over 3,000 rpm and no trailer pulling or steady speed driving for ~ 600 to 1,000 miles. From my own UOAs and hundreds of others we know that wear values stabilize at 4-8,000 miles, which indicates some polishing and burnishing continues long after the 1K. I realize there may be some exceptions but, I don't think we'll find them in our daily drivers. Ed

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I go with the manufactures recommendations in general. Warm up the engine and drive normally with brief heavy throttle acceleration, not over 3,000 rpm and no trailer pulling or steady speed driving for ~ 600 to 1,000 miles. From my own UOAs and hundreds of others we know that wear values stabilize at 4-8,000 miles, which indicates some polishing and burnishing continues long after the 1K. I realize there may be some exceptions but, I don't think we'll find them in our daily drivers. Ed

3k rpms is on the low side. As I said before all the cars I've had that were broken-in with initial WOT never consumed any oil. The cars that were broken in gentle did. However it could be just due to the engine type. For my truck I bought it with 63 miles and from there followed Nissan's break-in procedure. I may have hit 5k rpms once or twice but I kept rpms varied between 2-4K. Time will tell if it consumes any oil. I'm at 1,600 miles now with 600 on Edge EP.

 

[red7404]

i cant disagree with any one here. but 5 years ago i was playing with radio control cars. 2 cycle on methanol , nitro methane. there was a BIG controversy about how to break in a new engine. most people said to break in you used mid RPM with a number of mid power runs. with heat cool downs at the end of each tank full. but i read that in the past a long time ago they would just idle for hours. i used this method and it did fine.

 

[xxch4osxx]

When I bought my Ram new, I left the dealership and got out on the big highway and after it was up to operating temp for a few minutes, I dropped the hammer and gave it a few 5500rpm pulls. So far, with 48,000miles on it now, it still uses no oil between changes. Big trucks like what I drive at work are given no special break-in procedure when new. When all the wetlines and everything else is installed, we go pick them up, bring them to the yard and add a few extras like lights, stainless etc and then they are off to work. Pulling 136,000lbs gross weight right from day one, full throttle 55lbs boost all day every day. Never seem to have any issues with oil burning with them.

 

[CT8]

Has anyone seen how the cars are loaded and unloaded onto the transportation vehicles or driven by the hikers? We seem to have the luxury of worrying about things that have gains of inconsequential increments.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by CT8

Has anyone seen how the cars are loaded and unloaded onto the transportation vehicles or driven by the hikers? We seem to have the luxury of worrying about things that have gains of inconsequential increments.

I haven't but I've heard about it....

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by xxch4osxx

When I bought my Ram new, I left the dealership and got out on the big highway and after it was up to operating temp for a few minutes, I dropped the hammer and gave it a few 5500rpm pulls. So far, with 48,000miles on it now, it still uses no oil between changes. Big trucks like what I drive at work are given no special break-in procedure when new. When all the wetlines and everything else is installed, we go pick them up, bring them to the yard and add a few extras like lights, stainless etc and then they are off to work. Pulling 136,000lbs gross weight right from day one, full throttle 55lbs boost all day every day. Never seem to have any issues with oil burning with them.

I did that with my 05 Ram and it also never consumed oil. Thing is, many don't do this and also never see oil consumption..

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by buster

Originally Posted by CT8

Has anyone seen how the cars are loaded and unloaded onto the transportation vehicles or driven by the hikers? We seem to have the luxury of worrying about things that have gains of inconsequential increments.

I haven't but I've heard about it....

Yep, a friend of mine used to be a car hauler. When they got the new Civic Type R, Camaro ZL1s, etc you can pretty much bet the yard monkeys romped on them around the lot.

 

[Zolton]

Locking the AT in gear, "Sport Mode" or Tiptronic or whatever is the best single tip for break-in.

 

[Zolton]

My understanding is the IMS is a sealed unit, with metallurgy that is not corrosion-resistant. The "failure" is when the seal pops off exposing the bearing to air. In cars that are frequently driven, the bearing gets splash-lubed and functions ok. HD truck oil helps, with it's own anti-corrosion additives. In a climate that is salty air, or parked outside with lots of condensation of morning dew, the bearing will corrode. Many of the failures are in the past, the problem cars self-destructed. Best to know the history of the vehicle you might purchase. I had one with zero problems. It was garaged.

 

[willbur]

Originally Posted by Zolton

My understanding is the IMS is a sealed unit, with metallurgy that is not corrosion-resistant. The "failure" is when the seal pops off exposing the bearing to air. In cars that are frequently driven, the bearing gets splash-lubed and functions ok. HD truck oil helps, with it's own anti-corrosion additives. In a climate that is salty air, or parked outside with lots of condensation of morning dew, the bearing will corrode. Many of the failures are in the past, the problem cars self-destructed. Best to know the history of the vehicle you might purchase. I had one with zero problems. It was garaged.

Air corrosion now? That's a new one. The list of explanations continue to grow! Those particular bearings are common off the self industrial ball bearings used in a vast array of equipment under many conditions. Its odd the larger single or double row bearings composed of the same metallurgy did not experience this corrosion and subsequent failure; leading to the conclusion that failure was due to undersized bearings. The earliest/simplest remedy was to preemptively "pop off" the back bearing seal when doing the clutch to increase lubrication and prevent trapping old contaminated oil inside the bearing. Internet hysteria fed by bearing purveyors and unknowing forums led many to needlessly replace these bearings.

 

[Rat407]

How to break-in an engine thread is as bad as what oil should I run thread. LOL Every vehicle I have ever owned from brand new I just drove it off the dealer lot like I drove the trad in vehicle. No issues and no oil consumptions on the trade ins.. I still have my 2002 Silverado with 192k and it runs great and uses a qt in 8k miles and that is using a 0w-20 in an engine calling for 5w-30.

 

[Zolton]

I guess internal engine corrosion isn't a thing, and you know it for a fact because you did a comparative analysis of all types of bearings, with full documentation.

 

[Lowflyer]

Originally Posted by Cujet

It is hard to convey just how insignificant any wear was, and how brutal the dyno sessions were. All this talk about break in really leads me to believe that rings "seat" rapidly under load and then normal rates of wear occur. No other parts "break in". It's interesting to note that aircraft piston engine break-in includes full power takeoff and climb. Monitoring temps and watching the CHT's come down after a few minutes. At which point the rings are said to be seated and break in complete.

I heard Honda says to authorised EU dealers, exactly to authorised "garages": Please dont change for the first time our factory oil on Type R (solely?) until ~6250 miles. Therefore all everyone (EU) is thinking, Honda fills in the factory oil with littlebit differently addpackage. For better break-in. Well... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.heise.de%2Ftr%2Fartikel%2FWie-geschmiert-1369325.html Also heard, Porsche use for first 911 km a second, break-in, engine map (?)