Engine Break-In - Found the answer

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South Carolina
That's a great article. It's an interesting perspective for sure. I personally want to get my engines into that high heat and pressure range, but my engines are also older V8 engines with looser clearances and aren't meant to last 500k miles. I use break-in specific oil, usually Driven BR30 or BR40. I crank the engine over on a stand for at least 30 seconds to get oil moving through the engine. I start it up and run it steady at 2000 rpm for 5 minutes to get it heated up. Then I load the dyno and make low rpm, half throttle sweeps from 2000-4000 rpm, never letting the rpm fall below 2000 rpm. I do this for just 4-5 pulls. At this point, I consider the break-in to be done. If everything is fine to this point, I go straight into wide open throttle, max rpm tuning. The only time the rpm is limited after that point is if the tuning is too far off at higher rpm to keep going and we need to creep up on it. It usually takes just 3-5 pulls to get the tune pretty close. Then the engine is shut off and taken off the dyno. The oil and filter are changed amd the torque is checked on all critical bolts and studs to ensure they are still all where they should be, lash is checked, and compression and leakdown is done. I consider it a fail if the leakdown is greater than 3%. Then the engine is sent to the customer or installed in the car. Many of these engines don't even see the dyno time. They do the 2000 rpm run-in on a stand, are put in the car, taken to the track, and beaten on immediately.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Not once did I see something wrong internally. Bearings, rings, cylinders and valves always looked perfect. It is hard to convey just how insignificant any wear was, and how brutal the dyno sessions were. All this talk about break in really leads me to believe that rings "seat" rapidly under load and then normal rates of wear occur. No other parts "break in".
Exactly my take on this. Considering how cylinder stones, techniques, and finish have evolved especially in the last 15 years, along with different ring materials, thinner rings, and things like dry lubricants, there is no more real "break in" period after the rings have seated, which is essentially done after the first 15-20 minutes of running. We are not dealing with cast iron rings rubbing on poorly honed cast iron cylinders; the number and magnitude of asperities just doesn't exist like in engines built 20-30+ years ago. There is some minor "bedding" of the bearings, but that's about it. I really think the break-in period is there just to let dumb people accommodate their brains to the new vehicle's behavior; power, handling, braking, etc. Recalibrating their brains to the new, different machine.
 
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752
Location
sw ohio
Originally Posted by Zolton
I guess internal engine corrosion isn't a thing, and you know it for a fact because you did a comparative analysis of all types of bearings, with full documentation. LOL
And I suppose you did...? Weight of evidence strongly indicates otherwise LOL
 
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Location
Dagobah
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
That's a great article. It's an interesting perspective for sure. I personally want to get my engines into that high heat and pressure range, but my engines are also older V8 engines with looser clearances and aren't meant to last 500k miles.
The thing with the "third solid" between metallic friction partners is a very freaky thing. But that works ONLY for very first miles. Mean, on virginal metallic surfaces. Brand new car: - drive it for 5-10 miles (no more!) "delicate" - the next 300 miles a bit sharper as "normally" (a bit) - above, next 300 miles, normally (Normally, mean "civilized", but not with the focus for MPG) - after these ~600 miles, the process is completed. You can now drive the next 1000 miles gentle
 

buster

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Quote
Then I load the dyno and make low rpm, half throttle sweeps from 2000-4000 rpm, never letting the rpm fall below 2000 rpm. I do this for just 4-5 pulls.
I think that is a sound method. I agree. I think the most important thing to take from this is just don't keep the engine at a steady RPM or speed.
 
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182
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Mass
Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by Zolton
I guess internal engine corrosion isn't a thing, and you know it for a fact because you did a comparative analysis of all types of bearings, with full documentation. LOL
And I suppose you did...? Weight of evidence strongly indicates otherwise LOL
www.nskamericas.com/en/services/troubleshooting/damage-by-type/rust-and-corrosion.html https://www.nskamericas.com/en/services/troubleshooting/damage-by-type/rust-and-corrosion.html
Quote
Rust and Corrosion Possible Causes
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Formation of water droplets due to condensation of moisture
boxing Except the weight of your evidence is zero. My story makes more sense, not that Porsche under-designed the shaft bearing smirk2, because Porsche's fix is simply a few tiny parts; a larger seal and bigger flange to hold it on....so it doesn't pop off. LOL
 
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buster

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So far no oil consumption on the Frontier. OE fill and EDGE both. Bought it with 63 miles. Followed Nissan's recommendation up to 1,200 miles. I did vary rpms a lot and hit 4k several times and 5k once. I didn't floor it until I hit 1,200. I've been flooring it several times a day since. Running great. No complaints so far.
 

buster

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This was really good. Very informative. A friend of mine sent me this today. It's long so here is a quick summary of some key points: First 15-20 minutes - 2-3k rpms - 10-30% throttle - periods of load and back off into vacuum. Next Hour- gradually increase to 2/3 of engine rpm limit - 4-4.5k rpms - 60-70% throttle. By 100km (62 miles), you're 80-90% bedded in. So your window of opportunity is between 50-60 miles to do this. *These guys have found that doing this on a modern engine results in less blow by and less oil in catch-cans. The reason I bring this up is the better seal you can get, the less oil consumption and blow by you're going to get (theoretically speaking). I do realize that depending on the engine make, it may not even make a difference.
 
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Location
PA
Generally really like this guy's videos and insights. Not sure he's entirely right that bearings don't break in. Glyco seems to think they can, at least in some circumstances:
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If the clearance is minimal there is good conformability between the bearing and crankshaft journal. This conformability is a result of material that is worn in some parts of the bearing in the order of magnitude of μms. This process leads to less local stress on the sliding layer, a better absorption of shock loads and less wear.
From this PDF: http://www.wilmink.nl/Glyco/Glyco_lagers_technische_informatie.pdf
 
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1,646
Location
New England, USA
Originally Posted by Zolton
My understanding is the IMS is a sealed unit, with metallurgy that is not corrosion-resistant. The "failure" is when the seal pops off exposing the bearing to air. In cars that are frequently driven, the bearing gets splash-lubed and functions ok. HD truck oil helps, with it's own anti-corrosion additives. In a climate that is salty air, or parked outside with lots of condensation of morning dew, the bearing will corrode. Many of the failures are in the past, the problem cars self-destructed. Best to know the history of the vehicle you might purchase. I had one with zero problems. It was garaged.
Not exactly. The IMS bearing is sealed and the design was revised a few times, with the middle design being the weakest. Sealed for 'life' bearings have a service life, who knows how long Porsche designed them for, but eventually the original lubrication leaks out or otherwise fails and the bearing fails soon thereafter. The most popular solution is a higher rated bearing w/ no seal, allowing splash lube of the elements. That said, the IMS issue is way overblown by many "experts"... The seals aren't popping off..well maybe they do when they and the balls become shrapnel in the engine case laugh
 
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by KGMtech
German Engineers are not the only smart ones, however they think they are. I worked for a German company for 24 years, they think differently than North Americans, lots of planning and theory done before execution, versus the NA approach of getting into the problem, shirt sleeves rolled up, right away and finding a solution after multiple attempts.
That's called over-engineering.
 
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by IndyFan
With this never-ending controversial topic, it looks like there are actually some things upon which we all, including German engineers, agree: -Vary the RPM during break-in. -Rings need at least some time to seat. -Other components need to break-in, as well. -German engineers are methodical. -Germany lost WWII. -Before they ultimately lost, they put a pretty quick and sound beating on France.
But that ain't sayin' much.
 
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3,385
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by buster
What irritates me is why don't automotive engineers that write the manuals ACTUALLY tell us their reasoning? It's ridiculous. It either is good or not good.
Liability.
Yep. This is why you'll never get the engineers' real opinions on the subject. The lawyers are too involved in the writing of the manual.
 
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Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone seen how the cars are loaded and unloaded onto the transportation vehicles or driven by the hikers? We seem to have the luxury of worrying about things that have gains of inconsequential increments.
This statement is, perhaps, the best description I've ever seen, of what we do here on BITOG!
 
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1,377
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Kennett Square, PA
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone seen how the cars are loaded and unloaded onto the transportation vehicles or driven by the hikers? We seem to have the luxury of worrying about things that have gains of inconsequential increments.
This statement is, perhaps, the best description I've ever seen, of what we do here on BITOG!
LOL!! Oops, gotta go now. Need to cut open a few oil filters.
 
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370
Location
Munich, Germany
I reed, years ago, a reccomendation from LYCOMING, the company that produce aircraft engines, for breaking in of overhauled engines. They recommend to bring load and pressure to the Pistonrings with almost full open throttle, but not maximum RPM, to get the rings seated properly to the cylinder wall. I think thats maybe the key for a healthy engine. Dont forget that RPM and Load are two different things.
 
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