eBay buyer fraud advice needed

[Samuraidog]

I'm really not sure, but I think it is possible (depending on the item) for the contents of a package to be damaged without damage to the outside of the box. Say, for example, if the item was dropped flat without any cardboard corner damage.


Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
Ask him to send it back to you and make sure you get insurance on the shipped item. If it comes back to you busted up, then you claim the damages from shipping. This isn't dishonest if it happened via shipping in the first place. In the end, you only end up eating the cost of shipping. If your feedback is that important to you, this is what I suggest you do.


But wouldn't there have to be evidence that the box was damaged in shipping for an insurance claim to hold up?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Samuraidog
Ask him to send it back to you and make sure you get insurance on the shipped item. If it comes back to you busted up, then you claim the damages from shipping. This isn't dishonest if it happened via shipping in the first place. In the end, you only end up eating the cost of shipping. If your feedback is that important to you, this is what I suggest you do.


You keep telling yourself that isn't dishonest.

 

[TxHeat]

Until your buyer files a formal complaint with eBay, there's still time, (usually) to turn these things around.

It's a matter of deciding what you're going to do. If you're going to refund, then determine that you're not going to do it grudgingly. Do it with grace and professionalism. I don't mean grovel. But I do mean with sincerity.

If you're not going to do the refund, then explain to your customer that you won't and why you won't.

Do what's in your best interests. That's often what's in your customer's best interest too.

Larry

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Something I was told early on was to reverse the roles. Consider that he's the seller and you're the guy who just shelled out a couple hundred bucks on something that arrived busted up. How would you feel? I'm not saying you'd act anything like this guy, but I bet you'd be looking for him to make it right.

Well, it's something that worked for me.


I get that, I always try to put my foot in others shoes to gain perspective. I guess it's just the way this all started. He sent me an email screaming and calling me names and threatening me, all the while trashing my feedback before I had a chance to react to anything.. I'm all for doing whats right, but I will not be bullied, and that's exactly what is happening here.

He didn't even try to reach out to me first. He just left negative feedback & made onerous demands.

 

[TxHeat]

Originally Posted By: BTW
Honestly, if they are in the condition he claims, I don't even want them back...

And just to clarify, these were packed in the factory box with excellent protection, and then double boxed with even more protection/padding, That's what gets me, hard to believe they got that damaged...


I just want to reiterate, and again IF IT WERE ME, that refund would depend on getting the correct item back. No item back, no refund.

I've had exceptions to that rule, where it was an item of small value, @less than $20.00 and or I've made the mistake. I've shipped the wrong item, and as soon as the customer contacted me, when I checked, it was apparent what I'd done, I've asked them to keep the item and issued a full refund and an apology.

But otherwise, no correct item returned, no refund.

 

[TxHeat]

Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Something I was told early on was to reverse the roles. Consider that he's the seller and you're the guy who just shelled out a couple hundred bucks on something that arrived busted up. How would you feel? I'm not saying you'd act anything like this guy, but I bet you'd be looking for him to make it right.

Well, it's something that worked for me.


I get that, I always try to put my foot in others shoes to gain perspective. I guess it's just the way this all started. He sent me an email screaming and calling me names and threatening me, all the while trashing my feedback before I had a chance to react to anything.. I'm all for doing whats right, but I will not be bullied, and that's exactly what is happening here.

He didn't even try to reach out to me first. He just left negative feedback & made onerous demands.


Yeah, that's real hard to take and deal with.

I hope you're able to rise above it and remain professional. That's what will win the day if anything will.

Larry

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Originally Posted By: BTW
Honestly, if they are in the condition he claims, I don't even want them back...

And just to clarify, these were packed in the factory box with excellent protection, and then double boxed with even more protection/padding, That's what gets me, hard to believe they got that damaged...


I just want to reiterate, and again IF IT WERE ME, that refund would depend on getting the correct item back. No item back, no refund.

I've had exceptions to that rule, where it was an item of small value, @less than $20.00 and or I've made the mistake. I've shipped the wrong item, and as soon as the customer contacted me, when I checked, it was apparent what I'd done, I've asked them to keep the item and issued a full refund and an apology.

But otherwise, no correct item returned, no refund.


Even if the "correct item" is trashed?

 

[BTW]

To put a finer point on this guy's complaint, he's adamant that the item did not get damaged in shipping, basically he is accusing me of not shipping what was in the auction. But serial #'s prove him wrong. I really don't know what to do here...

If this guy was at all reasonable I may have considered giving a full refund but that ship sailed. At this point my gut says to let eBay resolution sort this out. If I lose so be it. It would be an injustice but life is not always fair...

 

[TxHeat]

Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Originally Posted By: BTW
Honestly, if they are in the condition he claims, I don't even want them back...

And just to clarify, these were packed in the factory box with excellent protection, and then double boxed with even more protection/padding, That's what gets me, hard to believe they got that damaged...


I just want to reiterate, and again IF IT WERE ME, that refund would depend on getting the correct item back. No item back, no refund.

I've had exceptions to that rule, where it was an item of small value, @less than $20.00 and or I've made the mistake. I've shipped the wrong item, and as soon as the customer contacted me, when I checked, it was apparent what I'd done, I've asked them to keep the item and issued a full refund and an apology.

But otherwise, no correct item returned, no refund.


Even if the "correct item" is trashed?


Yes, if the buyer returns the actual item I shipped to him and it's damaged I have to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt, (MOST people are honest), and give the refund.

So, no need to answer, but what's your actual cost on those speakers? THAT'S what a refund will cost you, plus shipping.

These cases are always hard to swallow, but they're part of selling online.

Larry

 

[dishdude]

The weird thing is the buyer has a lot of feedback, it's not like this is his first purchase. Maybe he's bi-polar?

I've bought and sold quite a bit on eBay since the late 90's and have never run into something like this, I've been pretty lucky. I would just professionally run it through the dispute process and if you lose it's just part of doing business.

 

[TxHeat]

Originally Posted By: BTW
To put a finer point on this guy's complaint, he's adamant that the item did not get damaged in shipping, basically he is accusing me of not shipping what was in the auction. But serial #'s prove him wrong. I really don't know what to do here...

If this guy was at all reasonable I may have considered giving a full refund but that ship sailed. At this point my gut says to let eBay resolution sort this out. If I lose so be it. It would be an injustice but life is not always fair...


Can't say that I blame you here, and also can't even say that you're wrong. I might do the same myself.

Whichever way you go, GOOD LUCK!

Larry

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
The weird thing is the buyer has a lot of feedback, it's not like this is his first purchase. Maybe he's bi-polar?


I know, surprised me too...

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the advice and feedback. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[DuckRyder]

Does feedback still show even if retracted? (It used to, but its been so long since I used EBAY my user name isn't even there anymore.)

Curious he maintains it was not damaged in shipping and that it isn't as described. Seems like he may be trying to work the system.

While I generally agree with bornconfuzd and thats pretty much how I handled business there, if he left negative feedback without trying to work it out I'd stand my ground.

 

[BTW]

Paraphrasing some of his comments in his very first email to me...

-THIS ITEM IS THE WORST CASE OF MISREPRESENTATION I HAVE SEEN
-FRAUD. DECEITFUL!!!
-I WANT MY MONEY BACK WITH RETURN SHIPPING
-THE GRILLS ARE ALL DENTED AND SMASHED
-ONE GRILL DOES NOT EVEN STAY ON AS IT IS SO BENT
-Both grills are trashed. Bent. Warped

(The ALL CAPS were him)

This is just a smattering of the first communication I got from him. In addition he had left negative feedback at this point.

If you looked at my auction does anything look "smashed, bent, or trashed"? These were brand new in the box AFAIK, and in mint shape, not a mark on them.

Way to start a communication, huh?

 

[toneydoc]

Ignore any further communication with him until you get the items back.

 

[DuckRyder]

They don't look bent to me. I don't see any pictures of the sides, but what is photographed looks fine.

Hind site being 20/20 more pictures of the actual speakers would have been good.

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
They don't look bent to me. I don't see any pictures of the sides, but what is photographed looks fine.

Hind site being 20/20 more pictures of the actual speakers would have been good.


Agree, I wish now that I had taken more pictures.

Here's another one from the buyer...

-These speakers were not damaged in transit. These damaged speakers were falsely pictured and described.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
They don't look bent to me. I don't see any pictures of the sides, but what is photographed looks fine.

Hind site being 20/20 more pictures of the actual speakers would have been good.


Agree, I wish now that I had taken more pictures.

Here's another one from the buyer...

-These speakers were not damaged in transit. These damaged speakers were falsely pictured and described.




How would he know?

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
They don't look bent to me. I don't see any pictures of the sides, but what is photographed looks fine.

Hind site being 20/20 more pictures of the actual speakers would have been good.


Agree, I wish now that I had taken more pictures.

Here's another one from the buyer...

-These speakers were not damaged in transit. These damaged speakers were falsely pictured and described.




How would he know?


Exactly. He's very accusatory and I know that they were in perfect condition when shipped. So in my mind, he's painted himself into a corner of sorts...So how did they get get damaged? Did he damage them?

 

[xfactor9]

My personal policy is to never sell anything online worth more than $150 due to the possibility of getting scammed.

Ebay's resolution system is automatic. Once the buy initiates a dispute, ebay tells the buyer to send back the item w/ tracking number. Ebay removes the disputed funds from your Paypal. Once the tracking number shows the item is delivered to you, the funds get sent to the buyer. Oh wait, the problem is: how does ebay know the buyer sent back the actual item? They don't.

And saying "Refunds not allowed" in the auction doesn't mean anything. The buyer can still initiate a dispute. For this reason, I allow refunds because Ebay basically forces you to allow them