Does oil color really not mean anything?
- Thread starter lukejo
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Many will say the add pack can make a difference in the color it will change into. Also how dirty it might be inside or blow by issues.
My cars run 5-7,000 mile oci's and always look black when drained.
A TBN test will tell you if it is shot.
My cars run 5-7,000 mile oci's and always look black when drained.
A TBN test will tell you if it is shot.
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
2 things. 1.The oil is o.k. to run. 2. I'd change it out early.
+1
2 things. 1.The oil is o.k. to run. 2. I'd change it out early.
+1
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Coal black in a gas engine. The oil might be fine, it might not, no UOA data then the oil condition is just a guess. Me knowing it was run on dino oil prior would change it. Odds are the current fill is cleaning up a mess left behind by something else. My question would be do I really want to keep that in there? No, so I'd change it.
I would consider a UOA for guidance going forward. Next oci if the oil looks better, consider extending that interval. Or use the UOA data to determine how far you can go.
If the ultimate goal is to extend OCIs using Amsoil, then I agree, sampling after say 10k miles after this clean up run would be ideal to get an understanding of oil life going forward.
UOA are best used to determine oil life at a set interval during the early part of ownership and then using the data from the UOA, proceed to run safe intervals for the life of the car / ownership. I feel this is the best return on investment.
If saving money on oil changes is the goal, 5k oil changes with the cheapest SN spec conventional oil from Walmart is probably the wisest choice by far.
Coal black in a gas engine. The oil might be fine, it might not, no UOA data then the oil condition is just a guess. Me knowing it was run on dino oil prior would change it. Odds are the current fill is cleaning up a mess left behind by something else. My question would be do I really want to keep that in there? No, so I'd change it.
I would consider a UOA for guidance going forward. Next oci if the oil looks better, consider extending that interval. Or use the UOA data to determine how far you can go.
If the ultimate goal is to extend OCIs using Amsoil, then I agree, sampling after say 10k miles after this clean up run would be ideal to get an understanding of oil life going forward.
UOA are best used to determine oil life at a set interval during the early part of ownership and then using the data from the UOA, proceed to run safe intervals for the life of the car / ownership. I feel this is the best return on investment.
If saving money on oil changes is the goal, 5k oil changes with the cheapest SN spec conventional oil from Walmart is probably the wisest choice by far.
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
Oil can only suspend so much "black stuff."
Baloney.
Again, this is only conjecture and old wive's tales.
If the black stuff IS NOT wearing particles, the oil is fine.
(Running a Fram Ultra is a good filter for those size particles)
If the black stuff IS wearing particles,
then explain how diesel engines go 500 hours or 50,000 miles (semi trucks)
running "black stuff" in the oil the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME?
You can't.... because it isn't true... AT ALL.
I know of a Kubota D905 3-cyl engine with 23,000+ hours on it,
and the oil looks like "pure black stuff" the entire time.
Really - - - AGAIN.... "Color" is NOT a true, accurate or scientific way of determining the viability of an oil.
Oil can only suspend so much "black stuff."
Baloney.
Again, this is only conjecture and old wive's tales.
If the black stuff IS NOT wearing particles, the oil is fine.
(Running a Fram Ultra is a good filter for those size particles)
If the black stuff IS wearing particles,
then explain how diesel engines go 500 hours or 50,000 miles (semi trucks)
running "black stuff" in the oil the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME?
You can't.... because it isn't true... AT ALL.
I know of a Kubota D905 3-cyl engine with 23,000+ hours on it,
and the oil looks like "pure black stuff" the entire time.
Really - - - AGAIN.... "Color" is NOT a true, accurate or scientific way of determining the viability of an oil.
I'd take note of the mileage and take a 2-3 oz oil sample for testing. Look at
the report to see what the wear metals are and the Total Base Number, over 3.5, plenty good,
under 2 or just 1, then oil was ready for a change.
Then dump in 2 cups of kerosene into the old oil, engine hot, then idle for 20 minutes or so, no load,
then drain the oil, let it drip for 20 minutes, new oil filter and new oil.
Oil will stay cleaner longer, maybe a month longer before it darkens again. Kerosene is real
good at taking out sludge and residue from interior surfaces.
In my gas engine application with stop/start driving and a pair of FilterMags, oil
appearance seems to correlate with very low wear metals more then 'dirt' or soot, amber clear to
about 6,000 miles and slowly darkens until I change at 8,200 miles. But I'm not towing anything either.
the report to see what the wear metals are and the Total Base Number, over 3.5, plenty good,
under 2 or just 1, then oil was ready for a change.
Then dump in 2 cups of kerosene into the old oil, engine hot, then idle for 20 minutes or so, no load,
then drain the oil, let it drip for 20 minutes, new oil filter and new oil.
Oil will stay cleaner longer, maybe a month longer before it darkens again. Kerosene is real
good at taking out sludge and residue from interior surfaces.
In my gas engine application with stop/start driving and a pair of FilterMags, oil
appearance seems to correlate with very low wear metals more then 'dirt' or soot, amber clear to
about 6,000 miles and slowly darkens until I change at 8,200 miles. But I'm not towing anything either.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: zeng
As long as there is slight tinge of goldenish/amberish hue, it's serviceable.
This means NOTHING.
Zero, Nada, Zip.......
100% false information.
Facts or conjecture?
Originally Posted By: zeng
As long as there is slight tinge of goldenish/amberish hue, it's serviceable.
This means NOTHING.
Zero, Nada, Zip.......
100% false information.
Facts or conjecture?
I agree with Linctex that zeng's blanket statement is false and misleading.
Oils darken, that's normal. Draining because it looks a little too dark after a small amount of mileage is just bad blanket advice. Obviously oil colour is important for obvious things such as if it goes milky white, you'd have some serious issues.
If anything I'd suggest
1. Maybe get a UOA to know for sure of the oil's life
2. Use cheaper oil for 5k miles if you are worried about the colour, no use spending on AMSoil SS for just 5k miles.
3. Keep the oil in and do nothing
4. Keep the oil in and change the filter (even with fram ultra, I'm sure it can become filled earlier than the promised filtration mileage if the engine is truly dirty or driven in dusty conditions)
Oils darken, that's normal. Draining because it looks a little too dark after a small amount of mileage is just bad blanket advice. Obviously oil colour is important for obvious things such as if it goes milky white, you'd have some serious issues.
If anything I'd suggest
1. Maybe get a UOA to know for sure of the oil's life
2. Use cheaper oil for 5k miles if you are worried about the colour, no use spending on AMSoil SS for just 5k miles.
3. Keep the oil in and do nothing
4. Keep the oil in and change the filter (even with fram ultra, I'm sure it can become filled earlier than the promised filtration mileage if the engine is truly dirty or driven in dusty conditions)
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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
Oil can only suspend so much "black stuff."
Baloney.
Again, this is only conjecture and old wive's tales.
Again, that's because Nobody Knows (though the statement you refer to as "Baloney" is self-evidently correct)
Originally Posted By: Linctex
If the black stuff IS wearing particles,
then explain how diesel engines go 500 hours or 50,000 miles (semi trucks)
running "black stuff" in the oil the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME?
You can't.... because it isn't true... AT ALL.
I know of a Kubota D905 3-cyl engine with 23,000+ hours on it,
and the oil looks like "pure black stuff" the entire time.
Is this a diesel engine? My understanding (from IIRC Demarpaints post above) was that it was petrol
If its a diesel, blackness is expected, and your post above has circumstantial relevance, though not as much as you give it.
If its a petrol engine, it doesn't
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
Oil can only suspend so much "black stuff."
Baloney.
Again, this is only conjecture and old wive's tales.
Again, that's because Nobody Knows (though the statement you refer to as "Baloney" is self-evidently correct)
Originally Posted By: Linctex
If the black stuff IS wearing particles,
then explain how diesel engines go 500 hours or 50,000 miles (semi trucks)
running "black stuff" in the oil the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME?
You can't.... because it isn't true... AT ALL.
I know of a Kubota D905 3-cyl engine with 23,000+ hours on it,
and the oil looks like "pure black stuff" the entire time.
Is this a diesel engine? My understanding (from IIRC Demarpaints post above) was that it was petrol
If its a diesel, blackness is expected, and your post above has circumstantial relevance, though not as much as you give it.
If its a petrol engine, it doesn't
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Some (by no means conclusive) indication might be had by putting a magnetic pickup tool down the dipstick tube, if you can get one to fit, and leaving it overnight.
A lot (ah, but what is a lot?) of slurry on the end might be concerning.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/31043052@N06/6184517595/
A lot (ah, but what is a lot?) of slurry on the end might be concerning.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/31043052@N06/6184517595/
Originally Posted By: ZZman
A TBN test will tell you if it is shot.
A TBN test will tell you if it passes or fails a TBN test, given a reasonable TBN pass/fail criterion.
Thats it. Thats what it tells you.
So it could pass a TBN test but still be unsatisfactory on other criteria, like viscosity loss, varnish, fuel dilution, wear particle accumulation etc, etc.
A TBN test will tell you if it is shot.
A TBN test will tell you if it passes or fails a TBN test, given a reasonable TBN pass/fail criterion.
Thats it. Thats what it tells you.
So it could pass a TBN test but still be unsatisfactory on other criteria, like viscosity loss, varnish, fuel dilution, wear particle accumulation etc, etc.
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