Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL 5w-20 - 21,079 Miles on oil

[OVERKILL]

I'll add that @wwillson you might recall I had a similar experience (but without the trend of UOA's) with my Expedition. It had spent its life on bulk dealer oil prior to our purchase of it and when I started running Mobil 1 in it, I was getting all this carbonaceous material in my filters as well. Took quite a while to taper off.

 

[DirectRejection]

Great posts, dnewton, OVERKILL and OP wwillson.

The details are much appreciated.

I drive 80k miles per year as a delivery driver subcontractor.

My vehicle is my baseline tool for my job.

 

[spasm3]

With the carbon shown in the filter material, I think it would be prudent to do 3-4 k filter changes, ( for the first extended run) when using a high ester lube for the first time in an older engine. That would hopefully keep the filter out of bypass as much as possible.

 

[wwillson]

I changed both the oil filter and the air filter. You've seen pictures of the oil filter, now the air filter and the filter box.

Clean side of air filter - used vs new

Dirty side of air filter - used vs new

Clean side of air box

Dirty side of air box - this is going to get cleaned up today.

[edit - added picture of cleaned airbox

I removed the dirty side of the air box and cleaned it, it's trivial to remove and will probably do this every time I change the filter.

 

[paulri]

Interesting. Every once in a while, the question arises here as to whether a good oil can clean up gunk from previous OCIs. Sounds as if M1 was doing just that in your engine.

Overkill I don't want to take this thread OT so I'll send you a pm

I'll add that @wwillson you might recall I had a similar experience (but without the trend of UOA's) with my Expedition. It had spent its life on bulk dealer oil prior to our purchase of it and when I started running Mobil 1 in it, I was getting all this carbonaceous material in my filters as well. Took quite a while to taper off.

 

[DirectRejection]

Huge levels of calcium.
I will hang my hat on that oil filter theory re the elevated numbers @ 20k mile OCI.

 

[wwillson]

I cut the element out of the air filter and no surprise that it's pretty dirty. Inspecting the element showed no defects that I could see.

 

[wwillson]

Because of the large amount of carbon in the Durango oil filter after 21,000 miles, I decided to change the filter in the Charger (3.6L) at almost exactly 5,000 miles. The Charger is running HPL HDEO like the Durango and given the cleaning power of the esters in this oil, I didn't want to repeat the extremely dirty filter experience we just saw with the Durango.

The Charger has 60,000 miles on the clock and as you can see, there is a considerable amount of hard carbon the HPL oil has cleaned from the internals. From now until the cleaning action subsides, I will change filters at 5,000 miles. Lesson learned.

 

[OVERKILL]

Because of the large amount of carbon in the Durango oil filter after 21,000 miles, I decided to change the filter in the Charger (3.6L) at almost exactly 5,000 miles. The Charger is running HPL HDEO like the Durango and given the cleaning power of the esters in this oil, I didn't want to repeat the extremely dirty filter experience we just saw with the Durango.

The Charger has 60,000 miles on the clock and as you can see, there is a considerable amount of hard carbon the HPL oil has cleaned from the internals. From now until the cleaning action subsides, I will change filters at 5,000 miles. Lesson learned.

View attachment 68523

Reminds me of my pictures, lol.

 

[Crusher]

Reminds me of my pictures, lol.

@wwillson thanks for your due diligence on this HPL Oil. I was curious when you 1st mentioned that you toured their facility and purchased Oil from them. I would absolutely do a 25k mile OCI in the future if I were you.
I'm grateful for everything that I have learned from this forum. You will have this Oil dialed in pretty quickly after another uoa or 2.
I recently did my 13th uoa on my 2011 Ford Expedition. It currently has 316k miles, and I've been running Amsoil Signature Series Oil and a Dual Bypass Filter for 5.5 yrs+ and 216k miles. Everyone has their own reasons for running the oil they run. I for one appreciate the value of a quality lubricant. Thanks again for your information.

 

[wwillson]

@wwillson thanks for your due diligence on this HPL Oil. I was curious when you 1st mentioned that you toured their facility and purchased Oil from them. I would absolutely do a 25k mile OCI in the future if I were you.
I'm grateful for everything that I have learned from this forum. You will have this Oil dialed in pretty quickly after another uoa or 2.
I recently did my 13th uoa on my 2011 Ford Expedition. It currently has 316k miles, and I've been running Amsoil Signature Series Oil and a Dual Bypass Filter for 5.5 yrs+ and 216k miles. Everyone has their own reasons for running the oil they run. I for one appreciate the value of a quality lubricant. Thanks again for your information.

You are very welcome! Thank you for the kind words about BITOG and sharing your experiences. Yes, high quality lubricants are works of art.

 

[spasm3]

I'm wondering about HPL 5w40 vs redline for my Ram 6.4 A lot of talk on ram forums about redline reducing the Hemi tick. Possibly due to esters and a lot of moly.

I'm wondering if the HPL would be good to use starting out in a new vehicle. I like that it has a higher TBN , as my truck will only get a few thousand miles a year. I'd feel better about 1 year changes with the TBN higher.

@High Performance Lubricants . Where can i find a PDS sheet for the 5w 40 Hp oil? How much moly in your oil? And your thoughts as to your oil vs redline.

I'd like to prevent the hemi tick from ever starting in my truck.

Thanks.

 

[mattd]

I'm wondering about HPL 5w40 vs redline for my Ram 6.4 A lot of talk on ram forums about redline reducing the Hemi tick. Possibly due to esters and a lot of moly.

I'm wondering if the HPL would be good to use starting out in a new vehicle. I like that it has a higher TBN , as my truck will only get a few thousand miles a year. I'd feel better about 1 year changes with the TBN higher.

@High Performance Lubricants . Where can i find a PDS sheet for the 5w 40 Hp oil? How much moly in your oil? And your thoughts as to your oil vs redline.

I'd like to prevent the hemi tick from ever starting in my truck.

Thanks.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-diesel-pdss.344424/page-2

I will be using the premium cold weather 5w40 in my PSD for my next fill. This oil is good for more than 1 year. This is also a diesel rated oil, not sure if you were looking for a PCMO or HDEO…

 

[spasm3]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-diesel-pdss.344424/page-2

I will be using the premium cold weather 5w40 in my PSD for my next fill. This oil is good for more than 1 year. This is also a diesel rated oil, not sure if you were looking for a PCMO or HDEO…

They have a 5w40 pcmo.

https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/passenger-car-motor-oil

 

[mattd]

They have a 5w40 pcmo.

https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/passenger-car-motor-oil

I know they do, i wasn’t sure what you were interested in, but I posted the CK4 chemistry because I knew that was already posted..

edit. Also found the pcmo elementals
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...icants-pcmo-series.344421/page-2#post-5849523

 

[spasm3]

I know they do, i wasn’t sure what you were interested in, but I posted the CK4 chemistry because I knew that was already posted..

edit. Also found the pcmo elementals
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...icants-pcmo-series.344421/page-2#post-5849523

It looks like from @wwillson 's uoa that there is around 500ppm of moly, that is where the redline oils seem to be as well.


I don't know if HPL will say if its MoDTC or MoDTP, i assume its not just mos2.

I'm near 500miles, so i will be changing oil soon.

Wayne's filter media pics , makes me want to use it earlier, rather than wait past warranty.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

I don't know if HPL will say if its MoDTC or MoDTP, i assume its not just mos2.

The moly will be in the 625 range. There are different types of moly that make up that number however none are solid. They are all soluble.

David

 

[spasm3]

The moly will be in the 625 range. There are different types of moly that make up that number however none are solid. They are all soluble.

David

Thanks!

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

@High Performance Lubricants And your thoughts as to your oil vs redline.

I'd like to prevent the hemi tick from ever starting in my truck.

I have not heard of any stories about the hemi tick. (Probably a good sign). We have heard stories about reducing the tick in Jeep Wranglers in a large fleet we lubricate. We have not heard the complaint in the Hemis.

With respect to Redline and also Amsoil also mentioned in this thread, I believe both companies make very good products.

I suppose the biggest difference to me is that we are a small more personal company vs. a large one.

David

 

[dnewton3]

Wayne - It might be prudent to do FCIs in stepped stages; let the filter disections and UOAs tell you when to "step up" to another interval.

Example ...
Right now, the insoluble loading is high; the evidence is apparent visually on the media and the UOA shows high wear. So run a 5k mile FCI and then cut that one apart. If the carbon deposit is still heavy, do another 5k mile FCI and repeat. As the insolubles taper off, and wear drops off, you can probably up the FCI to 10k miles, then cut and check. Then as the progress improves, up to 15k miles or 20k miles for the FCI.

I'll relate a very old experience I had many years ago, when I was a noob here. Gary Allan approached me to run some experiments with the (often hated) ARX product. I did have an issue with compression in my old Taurus engine; the rings were coked badly due to a previous owner overheating event. The ARX is a tri-ester product that works well, but it takes time. Frank told me to make sure I changed oil filters every 3k miles several times, because the junk that the esters were going to release was going to end up in the sump. And he was right; the filters did have a high level of loading.

Perhaps the lesson here is that if you're going to use an ester-based high quality cleaning agent (either as a separate additive or part of the oil product itself), and you're doing so on an older engine with high miles, then short lube filter intervals are a must. Whereas using an ester-based product on a new engine will keep the engine clean, and the filter interval can be "normal" because there won't be any junk lurking and waiting to be released into the lube stream. Can I prove this? No. But there's two reliable anecdotal stories here (Wayne's and mine) which would indicate this is a good practice to adhere to.