Disturbing trends in education ...

[JHZR2]

You don't think that the disappearing middle class has anything to do with home life and educational results?

I’d argue it’s more the stupidity of consumer mentality (keep up with the joneses, the hgtv trends, stupidity in real estate trends, lazy people with an “I deserve” mentality and/or who want convenience at all costs), the loss of a parent at home, and the rise of single parent households.

Between these three, I suspect 75% of kids are raising themselves.

Throw in parental lunacy, social media, the downplaying of the importance of the sciences and maths by a bunch of idiot art majors who care more about feelings than reality, and it’s a recipe for failure.

 

[PF52]

"The world needs ditch diggers, too!"

-Judge Smails

 

[andrewg]

Teaching and students learning in this country has turned into an experiment in society. We are teaching societal things, instead of what counts to excel in the world.
We as a nation allowed our public school system to be polluted with family matters, gender matters, religious matters and we are not teaching what really matters!

Science, Math, English, Engineering, teaching all things productive in the world have become an afterthought. Yet this is all school should be about, not family matters nor human race matters.

You're 100% right.

 

[andrewg]

Evidence?

You've got to have your head in the sand.

 

[Dave Sherman]

My wife taught for a while, first as an aide at an autistic school, then later as a K-12 computer teacher. Computer class is one of the easier subjects, but she had students who either didn't care or really were confused. After she had to give a failing grade to the school's star football player (who just didn't do the work), the principal flat out told her to give him a passing grade so he could still play football. Kids would goof off in her class, and because of some politics at that school they let her go. Now she's an office manager at a law firm and she's happy not being a full time teacher. She does some tutoring on the side, but she has no desire to go back to teaching.

 

[buster]

My wife taught for a while, first as an aide at an autistic school, then later as a K-12 computer teacher. Computer class is one of the easier subjects, but she had students who either didn't care or really were confused. After she had to give a failing grade to the school's star football player (who just didn't do the work), the principal flat out told her to give him a passing grade so he could still play football. Kids would goof off in her class, and because of some politics at that school they let her go. Now she's an office manager at a law firm and she's happy not being a full time teacher. She does some tutoring on the side, but she has no desire to go back to teaching.

That infuriates me. In the 80's when I was in school, we were more disciplined. We followed directions and when we didn't there were CONSEQUENCES. This coddling has to stop. It's destructive and arguably abusive in the long run. We're creating a bunch of weak degenerates.

Parents didn't have access to teachers 24/7 like they do now. Some of these parents who think their precious kids can do no wrong are delusional. It has to be a united front.

 

[JeffKeryk]

They still try here. My kids did well. Both Graduated in 2020. Both almost done college.

Education is what you make of it.

It starts at home - if taught that education is valuable and their teachers are resources to help them succeed, they will do well. If parents treat school as daycare and free lunch and kids treat teachers like crap, they deserve the education they get.

Beautiful. I love this. Got my 1st degree at 40. Education saved my bacon.

 

[I<3oil]

That infuriates me. In the 80's when I was in school, we were more disciplined. We followed directions and when we didn't there were CONSEQUENCES. This coddling has to stop. It's destructive and arguably abusive in the long run. We're creating a bunch of weak degenerates.

Parents didn't have access to teachers 24/7 like they do now. Some of these parents who think their precious kids can do no wrong are delusional. It has to be a united front.

But, but, but, whatever I say and think is what matters! You can't tell me no!!!111!!

 

[Number_35]

Your statement about tenure might have been right during the period you discuss, but here are the latest statistics:

"About 71 percent of faculty in the United State are non-tenure-track faculty, including research, teaching, professional, and clinical faculty; 20 percent are full-time and 51 percent are part-time, according to data from the U.S. Department of Education's Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System (IPEDS, 2021)."

Admittedly it was a small sample, and it's likely things have changed over the decades since anyway. My best prof all-time was tenured. It seemed to me he taught for the love of imparting knowledge to his students.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

20+ years of social media has done irreparable damage to a whole generation of kids.

 

[John105]

My wife only joined the school district a few years ago as a teacher, so you could say changed careers. She cares not about money. But cost was mentioned so I’ll throw it out there—public elementary teachers 72k, principal $150k, superintendent $240k. That’s not nothing and imho in no way indicates that the rubber hit the road.

Now let’s go to parents. I attended my first and only board meeting during pandemic. #1 topic was hs sports, when are they resuming. Very heated.

I had once heard it takes 3 to tango. Parents, student, teachers. But it wasn’t that complicated when I was a kid. I took SATs once and no more. No tutors no au pairs.

Then again back then even Harvard accepted 19%.

 

[UG_Passat]

I saw two news stories today. There is correlation, but I won't assume there is causation. What I suspect and what I can prove are completely different topics. I implore you to NOT bring illicit topics into this. It's perfectly fine to discuss general concerns, but it's not OK to blame specific people or entities.

Story #1
The nations educational "report card" is out. One measure for 13 year old students indicates that the math scores have dropped 9 points and reading comprehension is 4 points down since 2019; to levels as low as what was seen in the 1970s. Other ages did poorly as well. Pandemic learning clearly didn't go well.

Story #2
Also, in Indiana (and I suspect elsewhere as well), there is an ever-increasing gap in teacher employment. More are leaving than entering, and so the void in teacher employment widens. There are a variety of reasons why good potential teachers choose not to enter the profession, and those are probably very similar to why many are leaving before retirement.


Ironically, the US spends more and more on education every year. The money apparently isn't having its intended effect. Decade after decade, we spend more on education, and get less and less in return.

It's a cultural thing. Some races put a lot more emphasis on education, making sure their children didn't suffer as much as the previous generation, so they see education as the pathway out.

Not all cultures see the value of education though. They see completing grade school as a burden, then they think their path is sports or today, becoming a social media influencer.

Today's culture of parenting, turns the classroom into a hostile work environment for the teacher. There's no incentive to teach, because they cannot discipline the misbehaving student, as the parent see their kids as angels that can do no wrong, so they demand the teacher to be disciplined, and often gets disciplined. If a student fails, the teacher is blamed for the student's failures, and the parents claim "ignorance" that dispite the emails sent to the parents, the parents are unaware of the lack thereof progress of the students, and the teacher should of alerted the parents.

 

[wemay]

Not valuing our educators, parenting issues, social media obsession and Covid.

 

[slo town]

I work with children under stressful conditions for a living and here are my observations from the last 15 years:

1. Parenting is dead. It ranges from parents who now come in and say things like "we believe in gentle parenting" or "we don't say no" to parents who say things like he/she doesn't brush their teeth (they're 3 yo) because, "They won't let me and I don't want to traumatize them". Parents who make excuses why their 15 year old "can't" brush their teeth but are simultaneously shocked little Johnny has 12 cavities. Parents do not want to parent anymore - they want to be their kids friends.

2. Many kids can't socialize anymore. Many can't have a simple conversation. Many have absolutely no manners. This goes back to point #1. The 16 year old sits there grunting and they parent is on their phone not paying any attention and not correcting their child. One of my favorites, "Hey Ben, how's it going?" Ben is 17 and his answer is, "What? I don't know." What? If you don't know who in the heck does? They will usually look at their mother to answer the question.

3. Kids have no coping skills because their parents remove all obstacles from their lives. I'd estimate 75% of the teens I see have "anxiety and depression" and are being medicated for it. Parents use these diagnoses as a weird badge of honor and the basis for the excuse of why their child "can't" comply with any request. My hospital OR schedule for general anesthesia is booked out to February of 2024 right now because kids are coming in looking like a bomb went off in their mouths by 3 yo and mom/dad can't "traumatize" little Jenny by brushing their teeth and denying them apple juice all day.

4. With the above in mind, I do not find it difficult to imagine how these kids perform in school. I can only imagine the crap teachers have to put up with from both student and parents.

This has a global effect on the child and it affects every aspect of their lives but it is not the fault of these kids and it is entirely the fault of my generation of parents. I have three well-adjusted teens who can speak to people and cope and do well in life and have friends but those kids were "forged" for lack of a better term and that didn't just happen.

This, this, this!!!

I spent my entire career in one of those supposedly cushy high tech jobs for a Fortune 20 company. Let me assure you those jobs aren't so cushy. It's a dog eat dog, survival of the fittest world. We got paid what we were worth - and the salary budget was a zero sum game. For every person who got a raise, someone didn't. Low performers got laid off on a frequent basis. I cannot imagine the howls of protest by the young people raised in what you describe above; you know, having to work harder than the other guy in order to get ahead.

It's the same with education. Too many students and parents are unmotivated and have low expectations. They refuse to except any responsibility for their own shortcoming and failures.

Scott

 

[slo town]

Teaching and students learning in this country has turned into an experiment in society. We are teaching societal things, instead of what counts to excel in the world.
We as a nation allowed our public school system to be polluted with family matters, gender matters, religious matters and we are not teaching what really matters!

Science, Math, English, Engineering, teaching all things productive in the world have become an afterthought. Yet this is all school should be about, not family matters nor human race matters.

YES!!!! EXACTLY THIS!!!!

Scott

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Evidence?

You are the people that get these threads shut down.

You poke and poke and someone gives in, tells the truth and BAM, thread locked.

 

[GON]

Minimum wage has stagnated and the cost of everything has increased exponentially.

This is keeping people working (by design) and society as a whole is suffering. People no longer own anything and they spend less time at home. Stressors on society are increasing and people are suffering.

Bootstraps aren't the problem and you're blind if you think they are.

Has the cost of everything increased exponentially- or has the buying power of the USD changed? If one is buying products/ services with precious metals, the cost of things have not gone up in many aspects.

 

[Pew]

It's a cultural thing. Some races put a lot more emphasis on education, making sure their children didn't suffer as much as the previous generation, so they see education as the pathway out.

Not all cultures see the value of education though. They see completing grade school as a burden, then they think their path is sports or today, becoming a social media influencer.

Today's culture of parenting, turns the classroom into a hostile work environment for the teacher. There's no incentive to teach, because they cannot discipline the misbehaving student, as the parent see their kids as angels that can do no wrong, so they demand the teacher to be disciplined, and often gets disciplined. If a student fails, the teacher is blamed for the student's failures, and the parents claim "ignorance" that dispite the emails sent to the parents, the parents are unaware of the lack thereof progress of the students, and the teacher should of alerted the parents.

Yes, my company hires a lot of overseas workers and worker's permit/green card. These are folks from extremely poor countries and you can tell their emphasis on education and work quality is a lot higher than most people in America, especially compared to the "DeY tUk OuR jAwBs" folks.

America has let itself be ruled by lawyers. Nobody wants to be sued, especially some teacher making <$50k when they can be making double that in their respective industry without dealing with entitled families.

 

[bunnspecial]

Seems like every kid has ADHD these days *** LOL.

I think it has always been more prevalent than accepted or understood.


The reasons and excuses (there is some overlap) have both always been there.

It wouldn't be a BITOG thread without the "kids these days" complaints.

I was diagnosed with ADD(now ADHD inattentive and distractable type, I was one point shy of what would now be called ADHD, combined type) in second grade. I was treated for it for a while, and my teachers always commented favorably to my parents about the improvements they had seen. The general comments were that they always knew I could do anything I could focus on, but they had trouble getting me to focus on school work and not whatever else caught my interest.

As I grew older I listened to a lot of the people who rambled on about overdiagnosis, etc and I increasingly didn't want to even acknowledge that I had been diagnosed with it. My high school was unaware, and I opted to quit taking the medicine about halfway through high school, increasingly feeling like it was a crutch and maybe even wondering if it was a "real thing."

Obviously I managed to make it through college and graduate school, but there were times it was a struggle and if I hadn't listed to the(IMO toxic) narrative around this I likely would have been more successful than I had been. I learned coping mechanism that worked most of the time...until they didn't...and honestly sometimes weren't the best just for me living life or for interpersonal relationships.

Over the past few years, I've been reading a lot about how ADHD often presents in adults. It was sort of eye-opening to me how many of the things I thought of as "just how I am", but a lot of things like being overly sensitive to(and internalizing, not acting out on) the slightest criticism and the very "on-off" nature of ADHD attention really hit home. I finally decided to discuss treatment again, and I've been taking adderall for a few months now. It's made a big difference in a lot of areas of my life and some of what I struggled with in the past have become a lot easier. It's not perfect, but on the whole it's been a positive change.

Yes, it's more commonly diagnosed now, but there's also greater awareness of it. Even more so, it's been drastically under-diagnosed in women/girls in particular, as well there being a greater realization that it looks a lot different in adults than in children.

Is it overdiagnosed? Maybe, but it is very much a real thing but I can also speak first hand about how proper diagnosis and treatment can improve quality of life.

 

[Boomer]

I tried for several years to donate a 1000 hardbound book library on the US Civil War to numerous high schools and colleges. Nobody would take them! Twice, I heeard back from high schools saying "we don't want that filth in our libray!" Yes, both usedthe word filth. Others said they don't teach anything about the Civial War.. Colleges just ignored me. I finally sold the collection to a bookseller in Gettysburg as we were moving and i had to get rid of a lifetime's collection.

I could not believe the attitude of public schools! It is no wonder that school students don't know their American history. And I am sure this kind of attitude about subjects carries over into areas other than history.. Shame on us as a nation.