Disturbing trends in education ...

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Its a downward cultural swing exacerbated by multiple issues.
People who keep making bad decisions and then stand there with a blank stare wondering why.
Screen time and shutdowns only made it worse.
Our 2 sons used to think we were strict and shielded them from certain aspects. Now they see the abject failures of others they grew up around and they thank us for our hard work.
 
People with poor education will not put much emphasis on educating their children. It’s a very similar situation with poor neighborhoods that perpetually stay poor.

Problem now is that they were given all sorts of excuses. It’s always somebody else’s fault. It’s either racism, some sort of “syndrome”, patriarchy, one percenters, whatever, the number of excuses is limitless nowadays it seems.
 
I taught at the college level for over 25 years. Higher ed is in crisis, too.
I sometimes say that teaching is a destroyed profession.
In higher ed over half the classes are taught by part-timers, often people with no health insurance or other benefits. The myth of the cushy teaching job is mostly just that: a myth.
The way back for teaching and learning is to make the profession attractive: pay people decently and give them the support to impart what they know.
I think part of the problem is that the tenure system does not reward educational excellence or punish incompetence.

My last year of university was '78/79. My minor was geography. I took a course in Political Geography that spanned both semesters.

The first prof (Dr F) was quite good. He seemed to know his stuff, and I learned a lot.

The second prof (Dr M) was abysmal - rude, and not knowledgable about the subject matter.

A third prof, teaching another geography course (Geomorphology), told me that the first prof had been hired on a contractor basis, and was paid $13K with no benefits.

The 2nd prof was tenured, and was paid $40K plus generous benefits.

The 3rd prof told me that he himself was paid $18K. I considered him a very good teacher. I don't remember whether or not he has his doctorate at that time.

The first prof's $13K wage worked out to about $6.50/hour, based on a 40-hour week.

That ($6.50/hour) was only a bit over 2x the $2.95/hour I was earning working part-time in a warehouse, which seemed really low for a acknowledge prof with a doctorate.

And the $20/hour for the bad prof? I felt I was doing a lot more useful work than he was, for 1/7th the hourly wage.
 
This is somewhat anedotal, but I also do have numbers I've tracked for years to base this on:

I teach chemistry at a local community college. The majority of my students for the main class I teach are pre-nursing, hoping to enter the ADN/RN program at my school. This is my 3rd year at the school, but I've been teaching a similar class to a similar body of students(albeit at a big urban state school) since 2015.

This past year felt like the worst crop of students I had. Math literacy was at an elementary school level for a good chunk of my students. I've never had so many complaints about how questions I've used for years were "confusing" or "didn"t make sense" which to me pointed to poor skills in reading comprehension.

There is a 20 question pre-test/post-test we've been giving in this department for years now. I have seen a downward trend in both the pre and post scores in the last 3 years.

I wondered if it was isolated to me, but I talk to the nursing program faculty and staff all the time. They require a certain minimum score in math and language on a standardized entrance exam. As it currently stands, the fall nursing class is shaping up to be the smallest in 30+ years because scores were so low. They're offering a second chance exam sometime this month, which is something they have never done before.

Of course I can't paint with a broad brush, and my 15 student gen chem 2 class I had this past spring was by far and away the best I've had in my time here if not in my time teaching.

I could say that there's some selection bias at play particularly in college, and particularly when you look at a school like us. We do have a lot of students who come to us planning to use one of our transfer agreements(including the engineering pathway to our states' flagship university, which is a top 20 engineering school) and recognize the value and quality of education we provide. We have others that weren't able to get in anywhere else and end up here, or didn't even try because they knew they wouldn't be able to and hope through transfer agreements we're a way in to a school that they might not otherwise get. There's also the broader question of whether or not, with the job market as it is now, if students are electing to go to work right out of high school rather than go to college. Worse economies with higher unemployment tend to favor schools like us, as students can spend a few years here, not get piled in a ton of debt, and hopefully come out better prepared for the market on the other side.

Still, though, ignoring factors specific to our school, it's an anecdotal trend that faculty from all over the country at everything from other CCs like mine to Ivy Leagues in a wide range of disciplines have noticed. The best students are as good as they ever were, but pandemic learning seems to have widened the gulf between the top students and the mediocre students. The current freshman/first year class would have been high school freshmen in spring 2020 and sophomores fall of 2020. I'm afraid of what's to come in 5 years when we see students who weathered part of their elementary school years in virtual learning.
Regarding math literacy, I did a B.A. in university before going to a technical college for a 2-year diploma in electronics, and was therefore older (23) than most of my fellow college students, many of whom started right out of high school at 18.

In Grade 12 only one of my fellow students owned an electronic calculator, and that was toward the end of the year. It was probably only 4-function anyway. The rest of us used sliderules, and all of us used trig tables, log tables, and learned scientific notation.

When I started my electronics course in college, I noticed that all of the young guys were completely dependent on their fancy calculators. They had no idea whether or not their answer was correct, because they were not in the habit of doing a mental estimate beforehand. One wrong digit or false key closure and they were lost.

All that to say, I think technology has likely hurt us educationally in some ways.
 
Seems like every kid has ADHD these days *** LOL.
I think it has always been more prevalent than accepted or understood.

People with poor education will not put much emphasis on educating their children. It’s a very similar situation with poor neighborhoods that perpetually stay poor.

Problem now is that they were given all sorts of excuses. It’s always somebody else’s fault. It’s either racism, some sort of “syndrome”, patriarchy, one percenters, whatever, the number of excuses is limitless nowadays it seems.
The reasons and excuses (there is some overlap) have both always been there.
 
Minimum wage has stagnated and the cost of everything has increased exponentially.

This is keeping people working (by design) and society as a whole is suffering. People no longer own anything and they spend less time at home. Stressors on society are increasing and people are suffering.

Bootstraps aren't the problem and you're blind if you think they are.
 
Teaching and students learning in this country has turned into an experiment in society. We are teaching societal things, instead of what counts to excel in the world.
We as a nation allowed our public school system to be polluted with family matters, gender matters, religious matters and we are not teaching what really matters!

Science, Math, English, Engineering, teaching all things productive in the world have become an afterthought. Yet this is all school should be about, not family matters nor human race matters.
 
Teaching and students learning in this country has turned into an experiment in society. We are teaching societal things, instead of what counts to excel in the world.
We as a nation allowed our public school system to be polluted with family matters, gender matters, religious matters and we are not teaching what really matters!

Science, Math, English, Engineering, teaching all things productive in the world have become an afterthought. Yet this is all school should be about, not family matters nor human race matters.
You haven't actually been in or around a school recently, have you?
 
I think part of the problem is that the tenure system does not reward educational excellence or punish incompetence.

My last year of university was '78/79. My minor was geography. I took a course in Political Geography that spanned both semesters.

The first prof (Dr F) was quite good. He seemed to know his stuff, and I learned a lot.

The second prof (Dr M) was abysmal - rude, and not knowledgable about the subject matter.

A third prof, teaching another geography course (Geomorphology), told me that the first prof had been hired on a contractor basis, and was paid $13K with no benefits.

The 2nd prof was tenured, and was paid $40K plus generous benefits.

The 3rd prof told me that he himself was paid $18K. I considered him a very good teacher. I don't remember whether or not he has his doctorate at that time.

The first prof's $13K wage worked out to about $6.50/hour, based on a 40-hour week.

That ($6.50/hour) was only a bit over 2x the $2.95/hour I was earning working part-time in a warehouse, which seemed really low for a acknowledge prof with a doctorate.

And the $20/hour for the bad prof? I felt I was doing a lot more useful work than he was, for 1/7th the hourly wage.
I know a department head in chemical engineering who is salaried at $400k per year. Her husband is a non-tenure track "teaching faculty" who makes $75,000 per year. Both teach at a private university. I think she's overpaid and he's underpaid.
 
Teaching and students learning in this country has turned into an experiment in society. We are teaching societal things, instead of what counts to excel in the world.
We as a nation allowed our public school system to be polluted with family matters, gender matters, religious matters and we are not teaching what really matters!

Science, Math, English, Engineering, teaching all things productive in the world have become an afterthought. Yet this is all school should be about, not family matters nor human race matters.
We've had this discussion before (I think)...as someone who has been in higher education from 1996 to 2008 and is currently in school this is not my experience. If it was, I'd be happy to share it, I really have no dog in that fight. Perhaps it's different in the humanities or arts but in the sciences and business just zero of what you're talking about at three different institutions over that time.
 
We've had this discussion before (I think)...as someone who has been in higher education from 1996 to 2008 and is currently in school this is not my experience. If it was, I'd be happy to share it, I really have no dog in that fight. Perhaps it's different in the humanities or arts but in the sciences and business just zero of what you're talking about at three different institutions over that time.
Actually, I’m happy to hear your thoughts and input. Some of my perceptions are based on mass media reporting in that first hand knowledge like yours
 
College these days is nothing more then adult daycare. The majority of these so called students should not be in college. I know I wasn’t made for college when I was back in high school. I had to make decision about my life, go into the military to learn a trade, or find a good company and make it a career. Well I been at the same company for 30 years now.

Like someone has mentioned earlier about Baltimore schools. They get more money then other schools around the country and the results are terrible. Giving these schools more money isn’t going to make the kids smarter. My local schools are always asking for more money through tax levy, “ It’s for the kids” they like to say. They get the money but the test results are still low every year.
 
During the pandemic teachers were told to pass anyone that showed up.

The kids now expect to do nothing and pass.

Expect your future employees to expect a blue ribbon on arrival and to not have to do anything all day.
 
Yes, my aunt is a highschool teacher and she told me the same thing a couple years ago that the proficiency scores they were seeing are ~3 grades lower than they should be. All schools were affected but the wealthier districts faired the best as they had better funding for the various equipment and licenses needed for electronic learning. They were also told to pass all the students because "they don't understand what's going on at home."

Only America can people wonder why the education system is falling apart when:
  • We're more concentrated in a 20 year war with two third world countries long enough to span an entire generation.
  • Making education a business.
  • Making everything so litigious.
  • People who think education and technical progression is a waste of time. Every other developed country has caught up to the USA in 50 years after the two most destructive wars in history, that should say enough.
  • Also shows how useless parents are when they can't even tutor their own kids in basic academic studies.
 
The problem is that schools no longer teach reading, writing and 'rithmetic along with history, civics etc. They primarily groom and indoctrinate.

If we want the best results we have to go back to the best practices, the 3 R's already mentioned and the 3 P's, Pledging, Praying and Paddling.
 
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