Difference between M1 0w30 afe and 0w30 esp?

[edyvw]

Do the formulations have to be retested every time MB 229.52 is updated? I doubt it. I would think they are only tested at the time of the formulation.

They have to. All of them do it that way. When one gets a document that oil is approved, there is an expiration date of approval.
Mobil1 ESP 0W30 has been approved for MB229.52 for some time. When approval expires, MB won't issue new just bcs. the old one expired. Changes in approval, if there are any, must be addressed, if not, the manufacturer wants to know that oil formulation was not changed.

Besides that, that still does not means Mobil1 ESP was not meeting all these requirements even before test was introduced.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 was meeting API SP requirements even before API introduced SP.

 

[bhvrdr]

....
Lower calcium can just lower the possibility of an event. It is a bandaid.

And m1 0w30 esp is not a low calcium oil and not lspi mitigatin
What are the test sequences for 229.52 currently? I assume you have them.

Do the formulations have to be retested every time MB 229.52 is updated? I doubt it. I would think they are only tested at the time when the oil is first approved for marketing.

How much do you want to bet @edyvw @BMWTurboDzl @OVERKILL do not have the actual test sequences for the current 229.52.

Please tell me you are not relying on the only single public article on the internet that is a blog post from lubrizol not even the spec sheet for 229.52 to form your opinion on the current testing protocols of 229.52 and how m1 must list them on their bottles. Lubrizol doesnt even list 229.52...

https://360.lubrizol.com/Specifications/Daimler



https://www.oilspecifications.org/mercedes_mb.php

 

[Gokhan]

They have to. All of them do it that way. When one gets a document that oil is approved, there is an expiration date of approval.
Mobil1 ESP 0W30 has been approved for MB229.52 for some time. When approval expires, MB won't issue new just bcs. the old one expired. Changes in approval, if there are any, must be addressed, if not, the manufacturer wants to know that oil formulation was not changed.

Besides that, that still does not means Mobil1 ESP was not meeting all these requirements even before test was introduced.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 was meeting API SP requirements even before API introduced SP.

How long is the expiration typically?

 

[edyvw]

How long is the expiration typically?

2yrs.

 

[bhvrdr]

2yrs.

What are the current test sequences and specs for 229.52?

 

[edyvw]

And m1 0w30 esp is not a low calcium oil and not lspi mitigatin
What are the test sequences for 229.52 currently? I assume you have them.


How much do you want to bet @edyvw @BMWTurboDzl @OVERKILL do not have the actual test sequences for the current 229.52.

Please tell me you are not relying on the only single public article on the internet that is a blog post from lubrizol not even the spec sheet for 229.52 to form your opinion on the current testing protocols of 229.52 and how m1 must list them on their bottles. Lubrizol doesnt even list 229.52...

https://360.lubrizol.com/Specifications/Daimler



https://www.oilspecifications.org/mercedes_mb.php

OK< let me play this game.
What is a low calcium number, and tell us at what levels of calcium LSPI even occurs?
You still do not understand what ACTUALLY causes LSPI and what is LSPI.

 

[edyvw]

What are the current test sequences and specs for 229.52?

Ask Mobil1.

 

[bhvrdr]

OK< let me play this game.
What is a low calcium number, and tell us at what levels of calcium LSPI even occurs?
You still do not understand what ACTUALLY causes LSPI and what is LSPI.

Playing the game would be answering the question.

What are the test sequences and sorcs required to meet 229.52?

 

[Gokhan]

And m1 0w30 esp is not a low calcium oil and not lspi mitigatin
What are the test sequences for 229.52 currently? I assume you have them.


How much do you want to bet @edyvw @BMWTurboDzl @OVERKILL do not have the actual test sequences for the current 229.52.

Please tell me you are not relying on the only single public article on the internet that is a blog post from lubrizol not even the spec sheet for 229.52 to form your opinion on the current testing protocols of 229.52 and how m1 must list them on their bottles. Lubrizol doesnt even list 229.52...

https://360.lubrizol.com/Specifications/Daimler

Well, the additive companies like Lubrizol, Afton, et al. are part of the consortiums who develop the oil specs, tests, and formulations along with the automotive OEMs; so, they must know about their own specs, tests, and formulations. These additives packs are pretested and preapproved for blending. All the oil blenders have to do is to mix them with base oil and VII, and they get a plethora of automatic industry and OEM approval.

Afton and Lubrizol both say that an LSPI test was incorporated into some MB specs circa 2020; so, it must be done for newly formulated MB 229.52 oils but not for older ones.

I am guessing that Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30, like most other ESP formulations, have not updated to a mixed calcium–magnesium detergent yet; so, it does not comply at the moment with the latest API and OEM specs that have LSPI tests. It will eventually update/upgrade though, probably anytime now.

 

[Gokhan]

Well, it looks like they have already been updated to API SP, meaning a mixed calcium–magnesium detergent and LSPI protection, at least Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

https://www.mobil.com/en-ci/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/eu-xx-euxxmobil-1-esp-5w30

 

[Gokhan]

And Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 has also been updated to API SP with a mixed calcium–magnesium detergent and LSPI protection; so, everyone can rest easy now.

That sulfated ash (SA) on Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is a nice and low 0.6%, in principle eligible for low-SAPS categorization!

https://www.mobil.com/en/sap/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-0w-30

 

[bhvrdr]

Well, it looks like they have already been updated to API SP, meaning a mixed calcium–magnesium detergent and LSPI protection, at least Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

https://www.mobil.com/en-ci/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/eu-xx-euxxmobil-1-esp-5w30

M1 updated their euro formulation of m1 esp 0w30 as well but not the us formulation yet

 

[edyvw]

Playing the game would be answering the question.

What are the test sequences and sorcs required to meet 229.52?

The whole sequence? @OVERKILL might have spreadsheet.
Required limits could be found on Lubrizol web site when it comes to certain parameters. Not that you would understand.

 

[edyvw]

M1 updated their euro formulation of m1 esp 0w30 as well but not the us formulation yet

It is same formulation. It didn’t update API approval on bottles.

 

[Gokhan]

M1 updated their euro formulation of m1 esp 0w30 as well but not the us formulation yet

There is typically only one formulation of Mobil 1. If it is sold there, it should be sold here, too, soon.

 

[edyvw]

And Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 has also been updated to API SP with a mixed calcium–magnesium detergent and LSPI protection; so, everyone can rest easy now.

That sulfated ash (SA) on Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is a nice and low 0.6%, in principle eligible for low-SAPS categorization!

https://www.mobil.com/en/sap/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-0w-30

Same formulation. What I was saying about PPE. Formula anyway exceeds any SP requirements.

 

[Gokhan]

It is same formulation. It didn’t update API approval on bottles.

There is a four-digit formulation number in the date stamp on the back label of ExxonMobil oil bottles, which would tell you for sure of any formulation changes and/or differences.

 

[edyvw]

There is a four-digit formulation number in the date stamp on the back label of ExxonMobil oil bottles, which would tell you for sure of any formulation changes and/or differences.

Yeah. I mean there might be minor tweaks which are done anyway throughout lifespan of an oil. But anything major will result in new MSDS and pds too. I didn’t see pds of SP version, is it same as “older” one?

 

[Gokhan]

Yeah. I mean there might be minor tweaks which are done anyway throughout lifespan of an oil. But anything major will result in new MSDS and pds too. I didn’t see pds of SP version, is it same as “older” one?

The PDS I linked above says,

• Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 based on Mobil low-ash synthetic technology, meets or exceeds ACEA C3 industry standard to help protect exhaust-gas after-treatment systems designed to limit engine emissions. It also meets or exceeds API SP engine-test requirements to help address LSPI (low-speed preignition), making it a preferred choice for downsized direct-injection turbocharged gasoline engines.

Any change in the additive package should result in a change in the four-digit formulation number in the date stamp on the back label of the bottle. An allowed change in the base oil under API base-oil interchangeability guidelines and/or additive-company guidelines would not result in a change though.

 

[bhvrdr]

It is same formulation. It didn’t update API approval on bottles.

How did it stay the same formulation but change viscosity and density?