If that would help enough on its own, then I can see a lot of aftermarket chiptuning happening in a few years.
Deposit Issues with Ford 3.5L EcoBoost in SHO
- Thread starter The Critic
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bgfueltest.com is updated after adding BG109, BG44K and BGMOA to the engine. Appears that HP and Torque were restored and the valves look cleaner.
BG is going to keep testing and adding BG MOA and BG44K every 5K miles.
BG is going to keep testing and adding BG MOA and BG44K every 5K miles.
Originally Posted By: defektes
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
They arent the only ones, If I ever purchase a DI engine, defenentally be a 3k OCI and run plenty of techron to combat this as much as possible.
How will
Techron help?
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
They arent the only ones, If I ever purchase a DI engine, defenentally be a 3k OCI and run plenty of techron to combat this as much as possible.
How will
Techron help?
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
There was a member a few weeks ago I beleive who posdted pics of a diesel Jetta that had really, really bad buildup on the intake valves and in the manifold, I believe. Can't remember who it was.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
There was a member a few weeks ago I beleive who posdted pics of a diesel Jetta that had really, really bad buildup on the intake valves and in the manifold, I believe. Can't remember who it was.
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EGR-era diesels suffer from this as well IIRC.
well diesels made prior to tier 2 emissions regs just dumped the CCV gasses strait out the bottom in a road draft tube. but newer moder EGR diesels do suffer from this problem.
Some of the new big bore diesels actually have crank case vent filters that filter out the heavy oil mists.
Some of the new big bore diesels actually have crank case vent filters that filter out the heavy oil mists.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
There was a member a few weeks ago I beleive who posdted pics of a diesel Jetta that had really, really bad buildup on the intake valves and in the manifold, I believe. Can't remember who it was.
Yeah, I know a MKIV TDI owner whose intake manifold was half blocked with carbon.
Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The smart money will avoid being named the fools and not buy these engines,you have to laugh.
Yup, have to agree here. Until the kinks are worked out.
Why do diesels not suffer from this? HDEO keeps it clean?
There was a member a few weeks ago I beleive who posdted pics of a diesel Jetta that had really, really bad buildup on the intake valves and in the manifold, I believe. Can't remember who it was.
Yeah, I know a MKIV TDI owner whose intake manifold was half blocked with carbon.
We operate an F150 Ecoboost. I'm using Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended Performance oil in it.
After we accumulate some miles, I will thread a borescope in the manifold and have a look. (I have a couple of borescopes at work).
Should be interesting.
After we accumulate some miles, I will thread a borescope in the manifold and have a look. (I have a couple of borescopes at work).
Should be interesting.
Why don't they pull EGR from after the cat, so that partially burned hydrocarbons ar somewhat oxidized and muhc less sooty by the time they hit the intake valves? Why not a very low surface tension coating (teflon?) on the valves and ports? Why not one big dumb "TBI" style injector upstream for occasional spritzing? Why not an EGR operated by cam phasing alone, eliminating the intake valves all together (ok, I think I know why, b/c the ex. gasses are too hot, but hey).
Originally Posted By: OceanDoctor
Why don't they pull EGR from after the cat, so that partially burned hydrocarbons ar somewhat oxidized and muhc less sooty by the time they hit the intake valves? Why not a very low surface tension coating (teflon?) on the valves and ports? Why not one big dumb "TBI" style injector upstream for occasional spritzing? Why not an EGR operated by cam phasing alone, eliminating the intake valves all together (ok, I think I know why, b/c the ex. gasses are too hot, but hey).
The Cat creates some backpressure, that helps EGR gasses enter the intake.
Toyota has an engine that uses direct injection and port injectors for the reason you mentioned.
And the reason that timing isn't used for EGR is because you can't route a cooler between the exhaust gas and the intake end.
Why don't they pull EGR from after the cat, so that partially burned hydrocarbons ar somewhat oxidized and muhc less sooty by the time they hit the intake valves? Why not a very low surface tension coating (teflon?) on the valves and ports? Why not one big dumb "TBI" style injector upstream for occasional spritzing? Why not an EGR operated by cam phasing alone, eliminating the intake valves all together (ok, I think I know why, b/c the ex. gasses are too hot, but hey).
The Cat creates some backpressure, that helps EGR gasses enter the intake.
Toyota has an engine that uses direct injection and port injectors for the reason you mentioned.
And the reason that timing isn't used for EGR is because you can't route a cooler between the exhaust gas and the intake end.
Actually iirc using cam phasing in place of EGR is one of the things that GM did in their newer DI engines. That and injector placing and timing to alleviate buildup issues.
As most here know, I drive a CTS with the 3.6DI and have not seen any carbon issues yet in 50k miles. Niether has my dad with the same car as well as plenty of others I know with GM direct injected engines.
I wonder, because I have not been able to find, if any GM Direct Injected motors have carbon issues? Warranty data turns up none that I could see. GM has made plenty more DI engines and you would think we'd here about it by now. From what I am told, and from this article, GM says:
“We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events,” he said. “Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation.”
Here is the article link:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html
Disclaimer - I do spray cleaner thru my intake before every oil change "just in case" there is a carbon problem. However, my Dad or anybody else I know doesn't...and still no trouble.
I think the GM engines will be fine. The only trouble may be when they get very high miles and are not maintained...when blow-by may stick on the valves with no way to wash them off. Time will tell here.
Here is how it works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd90yHlmfS4
I wonder, because I have not been able to find, if any GM Direct Injected motors have carbon issues? Warranty data turns up none that I could see. GM has made plenty more DI engines and you would think we'd here about it by now. From what I am told, and from this article, GM says:
“We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events,” he said. “Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation.”
Here is the article link:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html
Disclaimer - I do spray cleaner thru my intake before every oil change "just in case" there is a carbon problem. However, my Dad or anybody else I know doesn't...and still no trouble.
I think the GM engines will be fine. The only trouble may be when they get very high miles and are not maintained...when blow-by may stick on the valves with no way to wash them off. Time will tell here.
Here is how it works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd90yHlmfS4
Last edited:
I saw on a BMW forum where BMW was actually paying for partial engine disassembly to remove carbon from DI engines that were still under warranty. Too bad for you if you weren't still under warranty.
The F150 EcoBoost test where they flog the [censored] out of the engine, then tear it down was a publicity stunt to me. I want to see the carbon buildup after 60,000 miles of soccer mom stop and go driving.
The F150 EcoBoost test where they flog the [censored] out of the engine, then tear it down was a publicity stunt to me. I want to see the carbon buildup after 60,000 miles of soccer mom stop and go driving.
Originally Posted By: OceanDoctor
Why not an EGR operated by cam phasing alone, eliminating the intake valves all together (ok, I think I know why, b/c the ex. gasses are too hot, but hey).
A lot of engines already use overlap to eliminate EGR. Mine does.
I am certain that VVT can help by altering the valve timing enough to let reversion clean the valves, but I have been unable to conclusively verify this.
Until I know more, no DI in my stable yet. Watching....
Why not an EGR operated by cam phasing alone, eliminating the intake valves all together (ok, I think I know why, b/c the ex. gasses are too hot, but hey).
A lot of engines already use overlap to eliminate EGR. Mine does.
I am certain that VVT can help by altering the valve timing enough to let reversion clean the valves, but I have been unable to conclusively verify this.
Until I know more, no DI in my stable yet. Watching....
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Dualie
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Sadly, seems noone can. Not Ford, not GM, not VW...How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
New diesels DO its starting to show up in some trucks. The other problem is when you combine PCV vapors and EGR carbon it creates a paste that is brutal. On the larger bore diesels its not so hellacious as the smaller bore engines.
A lot of the new trucks that are required to burn their CCV (crank case vapors) they have CCV filters on the truck that catch and coalesce the oil and send it back to the oil pan.
With the new EPA emissions motors the engines are being feed upwards of 40PSI boost (Some up to 50 PSI) to make the same Horsepower with the same displacement as pre emissions motors did with 25PSI.
Until the new EPA tier 3 emissions regs came out the PCV gases were just vented to the ground with an 1 1/2" tube that dumped down low under the truck.
MB diesels have done this back to the early 1980s (though only on about 11psi of boost). Turbo+EGR+engine blowby going through a vortex separator where the oil mist goes back into the oil pan and the gases are burned up.
Fine carbon near the EGR was a problem then and it is now. Use of syn oils helps a lot though.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Sadly, seems noone can. Not Ford, not GM, not VW...How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
New diesels DO its starting to show up in some trucks. The other problem is when you combine PCV vapors and EGR carbon it creates a paste that is brutal. On the larger bore diesels its not so hellacious as the smaller bore engines.
A lot of the new trucks that are required to burn their CCV (crank case vapors) they have CCV filters on the truck that catch and coalesce the oil and send it back to the oil pan.
With the new EPA emissions motors the engines are being feed upwards of 40PSI boost (Some up to 50 PSI) to make the same Horsepower with the same displacement as pre emissions motors did with 25PSI.
Until the new EPA tier 3 emissions regs came out the PCV gases were just vented to the ground with an 1 1/2" tube that dumped down low under the truck.
MB diesels have done this back to the early 1980s (though only on about 11psi of boost). Turbo+EGR+engine blowby going through a vortex separator where the oil mist goes back into the oil pan and the gases are burned up.
Fine carbon near the EGR was a problem then and it is now. Use of syn oils helps a lot though.
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