Deposit Issues with Ford 3.5L EcoBoost in SHO
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Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
They arent the only ones, If I ever purchase a DI engine, defenentally be a 3k OCI and run plenty of techron to combat this as much as possible.
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
They arent the only ones, If I ever purchase a DI engine, defenentally be a 3k OCI and run plenty of techron to combat this as much as possible.
change your oil daily and it is still unlikely to help this problem.
Catch cans don't help. The Audi RS4 is suffering from this big time. Some have added catch cans and seen no appreciable difference.
The fix has been to rip off the IM, get rid of all the carbon, then repeat down the road sometime. Guys are down 30% on power or more from this.
The fix has been to rip off the IM, get rid of all the carbon, then repeat down the road sometime. Guys are down 30% on power or more from this.
I really hope the Audi's are an extreme example because if that is what we all have to look forward to. . .
I have not heard of as many DI deposit issues with any other MFG yet. Other DI issues, but not deposits that seal off intake ports.
I still wonder why these problems are so much more widespread here than overseas. Fuel? Oil? Mixture? Driving style?
I have not heard of as many DI deposit issues with any other MFG yet. Other DI issues, but not deposits that seal off intake ports.
I still wonder why these problems are so much more widespread here than overseas. Fuel? Oil? Mixture? Driving style?
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The RS4 is an extreme example. The 2.0T FSI motors suffer on a much smaller level.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Sadly, seems noone can. Not Ford, not GM, not VW...How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
New diesels DO its starting to show up in some trucks. The other problem is when you combine PCV vapors and EGR carbon it creates a paste that is brutal. On the larger bore diesels its not so hellacious as the smaller bore engines.
A lot of the new trucks that are required to burn their CCV (crank case vapors) they have CCV filters on the truck that catch and coalesce the oil and send it back to the oil pan.
With the new EPA emissions motors the engines are being feed upwards of 40PSI boost (Some up to 50 PSI) to make the same Horsepower with the same displacement as pre emissions motors did with 25PSI.
Until the new EPA tier 3 emissions regs came out the PCV gases were just vented to the ground with an 1 1/2" tube that dumped down low under the truck.
Sadly, seems noone can. Not Ford, not GM, not VW...How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
New diesels DO its starting to show up in some trucks. The other problem is when you combine PCV vapors and EGR carbon it creates a paste that is brutal. On the larger bore diesels its not so hellacious as the smaller bore engines.
A lot of the new trucks that are required to burn their CCV (crank case vapors) they have CCV filters on the truck that catch and coalesce the oil and send it back to the oil pan.
With the new EPA emissions motors the engines are being feed upwards of 40PSI boost (Some up to 50 PSI) to make the same Horsepower with the same displacement as pre emissions motors did with 25PSI.
Until the new EPA tier 3 emissions regs came out the PCV gases were just vented to the ground with an 1 1/2" tube that dumped down low under the truck.
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
I was wondering the same thing. How can ANY car maker put these engines out on the street, in the hands of paying customers, knowing that this problem is lurking???? And let's be clear -- there simply no way that they DON'T know that this is a problem. Between each makers own extensive testing programs, and the rapidly spreading word of this issue, it must be abundantly clear that as currently implemented, the DI engines have an inherent, horrible intake deposit issue.
Seroiusly, I love Fords...but I can't beleive that as good as they are they can't fix the issue of Direct Injection.
I was wondering the same thing. How can ANY car maker put these engines out on the street, in the hands of paying customers, knowing that this problem is lurking???? And let's be clear -- there simply no way that they DON'T know that this is a problem. Between each makers own extensive testing programs, and the rapidly spreading word of this issue, it must be abundantly clear that as currently implemented, the DI engines have an inherent, horrible intake deposit issue.
It's the same thing manufacturers have done forever... put them on the street and let you and I develop/test them!
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why don't we hear about these deposit issues in other parts of the world? Is our gasoline quality partly to blame for it?
Good question, but if the fuel never sees the intake valve(s), how can it be the fuel's fault?
It may be much ado about nothing - looks terrible, but has no real impact on engine operation. Or not. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Regardless, glad my fleet is plain Jane, normally aspirated non DI engines.
Why don't we hear about these deposit issues in other parts of the world? Is our gasoline quality partly to blame for it?
Good question, but if the fuel never sees the intake valve(s), how can it be the fuel's fault?
It may be much ado about nothing - looks terrible, but has no real impact on engine operation. Or not. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Regardless, glad my fleet is plain Jane, normally aspirated non DI engines.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Nick R
How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
The new ones may but the older ones had a road draft tube. I remember the 02 Pete I drove with a Series-60 had a draft tube.
hmm, my 1983 mercedes 240d had a crankcase vent system that lead to the intake. A loose-sealing throttle blade (yes on a diesel!) caused vacuum for suction at all but >3/4 throttle. But who needs vacuum when the crankcase willingly supplies lots of blowby pressure anyway?
Originally Posted By: Nick R
How do diesels not have this problem? Do they not have PCV piping?
The new ones may but the older ones had a road draft tube. I remember the 02 Pete I drove with a Series-60 had a draft tube.
hmm, my 1983 mercedes 240d had a crankcase vent system that lead to the intake. A loose-sealing throttle blade (yes on a diesel!) caused vacuum for suction at all but >3/4 throttle. But who needs vacuum when the crankcase willingly supplies lots of blowby pressure anyway?
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why don't we hear about these deposit issues in other parts of the world? Is our gasoline quality partly to blame for it?
Good question, but if the fuel never sees the intake valve(s), how can it be the fuel's fault?
Even though fresh fuel never hits the intake valves, burned fuel (exhaust) either as reversion during overlap, EGR, or passing through the PCV system (carrying oil vapors with it) does pass over the intake valves. In some cars it appears much more severe than others.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Do the Toyota/Lexus DI engines have this problem? I have not heard reports of it. A buddy of mine has an '07 IS350 w/ almost 100K that looked like brand new (well maybe not brand new, but not bad) when he pulled the intake off, but he drives it like he stole it daily.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why don't we hear about these deposit issues in other parts of the world? Is our gasoline quality partly to blame for it?
Good question, but if the fuel never sees the intake valve(s), how can it be the fuel's fault?
Even though fresh fuel never hits the intake valves, burned fuel (exhaust) either as reversion during overlap, EGR, or passing through the PCV system (carrying oil vapors with it) does pass over the intake valves. In some cars it appears much more severe than others.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Do the Toyota/Lexus DI engines have this problem? I have not heard reports of it. A buddy of mine has an '07 IS350 w/ almost 100K that looked like brand new (well maybe not brand new, but not bad) when he pulled the intake off, but he drives it like he stole it daily.
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Oh, the diesels do it just fine. 02 1.9 VW TDI 44,000 miles.
Ewwwwwwwwwww -- those pictures seem somehow to be vaguely pornographic. I suppose I will leave them up. Just don't be posting any pics of the contents of your exhaust system (I'm not talking about your CAR'S exhaust system...).
I read a patent on the Ecoboost about a very clever trick Ford has to keep the valves clean. It basically runs an Atkinson/Miller cycle under light loads or idle (??) sometimes to allow fuel to clean the valves using the existing VVT system. Wonder if this only works with Top Tier gas or something, or wonder if this is a software update that hasn't been performed --- or how nasty these valves would be without the cleaning cycle.
That doesn't appear to be the case on the example B&G is driving!
I dont care who the manufacturer is, any one of them puts out a vehicle with DI and you run into these issues as a matter of normal maintenance, I would consider DI a complete engineering failure.
It is my understanding that US emissions requirements prevent manufacturers from implementing a "lean burn mode", like they do in Europe. During lean burn cycles, the valves reach extremely high temps, burning off most of the carbon, and subsequently releasing crazy emissions.
This is why DI engines aren't afflicted with the same problems overseas, and why these DI issues are only popping up here relatively recently, even though DI engines have been in use outside of the states for years.
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure DI as a concept works fine...its just super strict emissions requirements that are killing it.
This is why DI engines aren't afflicted with the same problems overseas, and why these DI issues are only popping up here relatively recently, even though DI engines have been in use outside of the states for years.
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure DI as a concept works fine...its just super strict emissions requirements that are killing it.
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