Dentist....teeth cleaning

My brother owns a small dental supply company he and my dentist both tell me the end of the independent dental practice is near the end corporate America is taking it over.
The threat is real. Kids are graduating $400-500K in debt and do not want to take on more debt to buy a practice. These corporate practices offer guaranteed money and benefits BUT they often give up autonomy and many feel pressured to produce treatment that may not be needed. The other big offenders are old docs who are retiring. These corps come in with over asking all-cash offers.

To be clear this is BAD for patients. These corps serve Wall Street/share holders and not the patient's best interest. Dentistry is going the way of medicine where a few corporations will own all the practices in an area leading to reduced competition, cost cutting to maximize profits, etc. I have 20 more years to fight the good fight.
 
$400-500K is worth it to become a doctor.
I know a person who prior to the education debt pause paid $30K per year in interest alone. Dental school costs me about $150K. At $500K, I'd take a pass. I'm a really bright guy, I could've completed a graduate degree in any field other than probably mathematics or physics. Don't get me wrong, I'm strong in mathematics and physics, but not quite strong enough for that level.

That's just a DEEP hole to dig out of and IMO not worth it.
 
The threat is real. Kids are graduating $400-500K in debt and do not want to take on more debt to buy a practice. These corporate practices offer guaranteed money and benefits BUT they often give up autonomy and many feel pressured to produce treatment that may not be needed. The other big offenders are old docs who are retiring. These corps come in with over asking all-cash offers.

To be clear this is BAD for patients. These corps serve Wall Street/share holders and not the patient's best interest. Dentistry is going the way of medicine where a few corporations will own all the practices in an area leading to reduced competition, cost cutting to maximize profits, etc. I have 20 more years to fight the good fight.
Same what happened to the independent pharmacy they we're forced to sell there client list while it had value the longer you held out less valuable it got. Corporate America like CVS put the screws to them ,sell or be crushed
 
I know a person who prior to the education debt pause paid $30K per year in interest alone. Dental school costs me about $150K. At $500K, I'd take a pass. I'm a really bright guy, I could've completed a graduate degree in any field other than probably mathematics or physics. Don't get me wrong, I'm strong in mathematics and physics, but not quite strong enough for that level.

That's just a DEEP hole to dig out of and IMO not worth it.

I believe over a 35 year career as a doctor it’s worth the money invested for an advanced education.

I’ve worked in healthcare for 35 years and met lots of great doctors and surgeons.

😷 .
 
I believe over a 35 year career as a doctor it’s worth the money invested in an advanced education.

I’ve worked in healthcare for 35 years and met lots of great doctors and surgeons.

😷
.
I consider myself part of the old guard even though I've been out a little under 20 years. My $150K has been at 0.65% interest while many of the new grads have $400K+ at 7.5% or higher. While it has certainly paid off for me, even paying seven figures to start a practice, all I can do is report how new grads feel and they almost universally feel like they're struggling due to their debt load.

$400K in education debt + $1M plus for a practice + CV-19 either shutting down practices or forcing reduced patient volume not to mention all the staffing issues + there are no guarantees in small business. Dentists don't have hospitals employment as an option and so it's small business owner or work for a corp.
 
My nephew graduated Tufts medical school now working in a San Diego hospital I hope it all pays off for him he's living his dream. I can't imagine the debt he's in but there's good debt and bad debt. This is good debt
To a point. If he's a specialist he's probably doing ok. If he's in pediatrics he's probably living in the on-call room.
 
My nephew graduated Tufts medical school now working in a San Diego hospital I hope it all pays off for him he's living his dream. I can't imagine the debt he's in but there's good debt and bad debt. This is good debt

If he pays his dues and wants to help sick people, that’s great and he will do well.
 
I consider myself part of the old guard even though I've been out a little under 20 years. My $150K has been at 0.65% interest while many of the new grads have $400K+ at 7.5% or higher. While it has certainly paid off for me, even paying seven figures to start a practice, all I can do is report how new grads feel and they almost universally feel like they're struggling due to their debt load.

$400K in education debt + $1M plus for a practice + CV-19 either shutting down practices or forcing reduced patient volume not to mention all the staffing issues + there are no guarantees in small business. Dentists don't have hospitals employment as an option and so it's small business owner or work for a corp.
My brother's small dental supply company during covid all he could sell was mask's,gloves and gowns he had hospital's begging him for the supplies. Hospitals are extremely slow payers he told them credit card or no deal. Tough times for dentist some didn't survive
 
My brother's small dental supply company during covid all he could sell was mask's,gloves and gowns he had hospital's begging him for the supplies. Hospitals are extremely slow payers he told them credit card or no deal. Tough times for dentist some didn't survive
The effect of CV-19 was very specialty-specific. If you were actively involved in treating sick CV-19 patients then you were busy. If you mainly performed "elective" procedures you were screwed. I have a buddy in plastics and he's had months worth of surgeries canceled during CV-19 surges.

I also learned there is no such thing as "teledentistry". If patients aren't in the office I'm not making money.
 
The effect of CV-19 was very specialty-specific. If you were actively involved in treating sick CV-19 patients then you were busy. If you mainly performed "elective" procedures you were screwed. I have a buddy in plastics and he's had months worth of surgeries canceled during CV-19 surges.

I also learned there is no such thing as "teledentistry". If patients aren't in the office I'm not making money.
If your patient wasn't in dental pain there was no chance that patient was coming into the office
 
If your patient wasn't in dental pain there was no chance that patient was coming into the office
My wife and I had regular dental care during the pandemic. Teeth cleaned by the dental hygienist at our dentist's office every 9 months. X-rays and examination by the dentist every other cleaning. I cracked a ceramic crown and had it replaced (with gold).

We didn't get Covid and neither did our dentist or any of his staff.

Our typical dental bills are in the range of $250/year each with most of that covered by our dental plan. The crown was pricey - about $1500 - with half covered by our dental plan. We take good care of our teeth which is good for your health and I believe reduces our overall cost.
 
My wife and I had regular dental care during the pandemic. Teeth cleaned by the dental hygienist at our dentist's office every 9 months. X-rays and examination by the dentist every other cleaning. I cracked a ceramic crown and had it replaced (with gold).

We didn't get Covid and neither did our dentist or any of his staff.

Our typical dental bills are in the range of $250/year each with most of that covered by our dental plan. The crown was pricey - about $1500 - with half covered by our dental plan. We take good care of our teeth which is good for your health and I believe reduces our overall cost.
In certain parts of the country, we were shut down completely except for emergencies. By that I mean we went from 50 patients per day to 3-5 patients per week for 3 months. That was painful...
 
The other issue is it's a CYA world. One of the most common lawsuits in dentistry is a patient comes in and is told they need a deep cleaning, they don't want to pay for it and instead they just want "regular cleanings". Years later they start losing teeth and they sue the dentist for failure to treat claiming they never knew the deep cleanings were that important. The dentist gets double screwed because the standard of care, which you can not go below even at a patient's request, was not met. Now the poor bastard is getting sanctioned by their state dental board or losing their license. So, if you need something and don't want it that's fine but you will not be one of my patients and as much as that pissed you off I'm not assuming this liability.
Medical malpractice insurance costs is one of the many reasons the independent dentist/ doctor office is slowly going away and almost complete
 
i can honestly say that i’ve gained much insight here from pwmdmd, thank you! i wish that i could be one of your patients.

my younger brother is a solo practitioner eye surgeon. after 25,000+ cataract surgeries in 40 years he is fed up and all done. many of his issues mirror what pwmdmd described about dentistry. cataract surgery was deemed nonessential when the flu hit. he has come to loathe modern corporate medicine and government intervention.

i have lousy teeth, some responsibility is my own semi-neglect during my middle years. my career was mostly overseas and my dentistry varied from outstanding (korea & indonesia) to awful (japan). my first root canal was performed by a syrian christian woman, educated at a german dental university, practicing in haiti, quite good. my most memorable root canal was performed by a chinese dentist at beijing #1 hospital without anesthesia, excellent job, done in 20 minutes without pain. i asked him how he did that, he replied that, with a billion mouths, chinese dentists get alot of practice to get it right.

finding a dentist, barber and mechanic have always been top priorities as i moved around. i finally got my teeth squared away as a “dental tourist,” courtesy of my indonesian dentist’s expertise, honesty and reassuring “bedside” manner. i have yet to find someone stateside who i enjoy seeing as much as him. a good dentist is worth his/her weight in gold. bad teeth can really screw up one’s life.
 
My brother owns a small dental supply company he and my dentist both tell me the end of the independent dental practice is near the end corporate America is taking it over.
Yup, no different than the demise independent drug stores. Actually independent everything in the medical field is coming to an end.
Its almost weird if I go to a specialist or doctor who isnt part of a "group"
 
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