Dentist....teeth cleaning

New dentists are terrible. Whatever you do don't go to dentistry schools for care. I went to Midwestern dentistry school in Illinois and regret it. All they want to do is pull teeth and replace with implants. I don't think they teach these students how to save teeth anymore. I'm 60 with all my teeth except for 2 crowns,one of which I had done at the school which ended up after 4 visits costing the same as if I had it done by a professional. They use cheap filling composite that fails and allows decay after only one year if you do get a cavity. I'd rather pay the little extra and have a professional job done by someone in private practice. Took me months to find a new dentist over 50 that was taught the right way
It can be a mixed bag of who you get at one of the schools since you’re dealing with students. One of the things they look at from applicants is hand eye coordination and spatial awareness but that is just one of the many things. You can get the 95th percentile DAT and a 4.0 gpa but barely scraped by the boards for the physical aspects. It also depends on which school you go to. If you get care at one that has an endodontics specialty there's a good chance they'd want to try to do a root canal on it to save it even if it was rather complex.
 
Last edited:
I have never even heard of a deep cleaning before.
Because that's not the real term. He's likely referring to a Scaling and Root Planing, often called an SRP. It's a "deeper" clean but isn't just a deep cleaning. An SRP is a cleaning typically utilized on individuals with periodontal disease, they scale (remove) plaque that is below the gum line. The root planing is the "smoothening" of the tooth root to help the gums reattach and create a firm fitment. What a lot of people don't understand is that once periodontal disease has taken root, you never really shake it and your dental checkups should reflect that via more frequent regular cleanings.
 
Because that's not the real term. He's likely referring to a Scaling and Root Planing, often called an SRP. It's a "deeper" clean but isn't just a deep cleaning. An SRP is a cleaning typically utilized on individuals with periodontal disease, they scale (remove) plaque that is below the gum line. The root planing is the "smoothening" of the tooth root to help the gums reattach and create a firm fitment. What a lot of people don't understand is that once periodontal disease has taken root, you never really shake it and your dental checkups should reflect that via more frequent regular cleanings.
Also following an SRP, usually the type of cleaning you receive changes from D1110 "adult prophylaxis" to D4910 "periodontal maintenance" on 3-6 month intervals depending on the condition or office. The new code/cleaning focuses on the gums that had just been treated, to consistently remove bacteria or plaque building in pockets of what was just removed and to help the gums close these pockets. It really is a large process to fight periodontal disease.
 
Yep dentists aren't "real doctors" with an MD or DO. They do not take the MCAT, or go to medical school. It's a shame some people look at patients as gold mines:
lol, wut?

DDS = Doctor of Dental Surgery
DMD = Doctor of Dental Medicine

They don't take the MCAT (Medical College Admission Test) because they take the DAT (Dental Admission Test)

They absolutely are real doctors.

Should you go to a dentist for a rash? No.
Should you go to a dermatologist for a tooth ache? No.
 
1648757006943.jpg
Save your money and use one of these. :ROFLMAO:
 
Also following an SRP, usually the type of cleaning you receive changes from D1110 "adult prophylaxis" to D4910 "periodontal maintenance" on 3-6 month intervals depending on the condition or office. The new code/cleaning focuses on the gums that had just been treated, to consistently remove bacteria or plaque building in pockets of what was just removed and to help the gums close these pockets. It really is a large process to fight periodontal disease.
Now we're getting into the nitty gritty!

When my wife was about to graduate with her BSDH she was notified that she was four injections short of the graduation requirement. Guess who gets to tell her that without someone selflessly volunteering their mouth on a Saturday morning for four injections she wouldn't have a degree and subsequent career, this guy! :ROFLMAO:
 
Now we're getting into the nitty gritty!

When my wife was about to graduate with her BSDH she was notified that she was four injections short of the graduation requirement. Guess who gets to tell her that without someone selflessly volunteering their mouth on a Saturday morning for four injections she wouldn't have a degree and subsequent career, this guy! :ROFLMAO:
That sounds lovely, my girlfriend just got admitted to hygiene school for fall 2022 and I'll give you one guess as to what I'm studying towards.
 
That sounds lovely, my girlfriend just got admitted to hygiene school for fall 2022 and I'll give you one guess as to what I'm studying towards.
It's truly a great career. I tell my wife to progress and get her DDS but she absolutely loves the hygiene side and wants to eventually transition into a teaching setting, hence the BS as opposed to the AAS. Best of luck to both of you!

Sorry to hijack your thread, OP. I'll step out now.
 
lol, wut?

DDS = Doctor of Dental Surgery
DMD = Doctor of Dental Medicine

They don't take the MCAT (Medical College Admission Test) because they take the DAT (Dental Admission Test)

They absolutely are real doctors.

Should you go to a dentist for a rash? No.
Should you go to a dermatologist for a tooth ache? No.
Real doctors of dentistry, not Medicine. Hence, why in most states they have restricted pharmacy privileges.

I agree they most certainly have earned the designation of Doctor of Dentistry, more so in my opinion than say a certain person who goes by Dr. with a PhD in education. But not to be confused with Medical Doctor which the public may not know the difference between.

To me there is a spectrum, MD/DO and then everything else with chiropractors, naturopaths and homeopathic doctors at the bottom, actually those don't even count.

If you had a medical emergency like chest pain, loss of consciousness, peeing blood etc on a plane in the middle of the ocean would you want a dentist helping you or a ENT, GI or neurologist that happens to be on the plane?

An MD / DO, regardless of specialty went through a thorough education regarding every part and system of the body down to biochemical processes including what dentists review. They just don't end up drilling cadaver heads for 4 years. Dentists spend most of their time perfecting the "ship in a bottle" mechanics / art of dentistry while reviewing a smidgen of allopathic medicine besides a focus on the head.

Anyway, I too have derailed the thread! Rant over. :ROFLMAO:
 
I'm a dentist. I do not give away anything for free and I charge what I believe is a fair fee for everything I do unless "I" decide to do pro bono work. The overhead in dentistry is really high and that costs money. Any time someone offers you something for "free" in dentistry they must make up for it somewhere.

FWIW, "deep cleanings" have always gotten a bad wrap mostly because they are genetic/medical factors at play but more importantly patients almost never change their habits. The number one cause of tooth loss is periodontal disease which is primarily treated with deep cleanings. Patients typically get the "deep cleaning" and think they're done but with a combination of not changing their oral hygiene habits +/- bad genetics, they will eventually need it again.

This may sound harsh but it's the truth. Don't want it? That's your choice, they're not my teeth, I'm just the messenger but ultimately this is YOUR problem, not mine. I don't have periodontal disease.
 
Last edited:
I'm a dentist. I do not give away anything for free and I charge what I believe is a fair fee for everything I do unless "I" decide to do pro bono work. The overhead in dentistry is really high and that costs money. Any time someone offers you something for "free" in dentistry they must make up for it somewhere.

FWIW, "deep cleanings" have always gotten a bad wrap mostly because they are genetic factors at play but more importantly patients almost never change their habits. The number one cause of tooth loss is periodontal disease which is primarily treated with deep cleanings. Patients typically get the "deep cleaning" and think they're done but with a combination of not changing their oral hygiene habits +/- bad genetics, they will eventually need it again.

This may sound harsh but it's the truth. Don't want it? That's your choice, they're not my teeth, I'm just the messenger but ultimately this is YOUR problem, not mine. I don't have periodontal disease.

My boss has terrible breath. Like mule mouth.

What recommendations besides daily brush and floss ?

I really hate having to talk to the guy in person.
 
They tell her because she is diabetic etc....which goes against what the medical doctor told her.....she would need to take anti-biotics fora week before....and unless it some major problem very very few every need them....like one in 400-500....
When the one last dentist told her she does not know what she is talking about she told him she is an ICU nurse and he was full of it...and walked out.
MDs know much less about the mouth than dentists know about medicine. I trained at a school where dental students and medical students were all in the same classes taking the same tests for the first two years. Dental students were required to take part 1 of the medical boards to graduate to the third year but this allowed them to move into the medical school class if they didn't like dentistry and it was messing with class sizes - so they stopped that. I did full-body dissection and was responsible for knowing normal anatomy/physiology and pathology of every organ system in the human body right down to plantar fasciitis. My medical student colleagues received about an hour of instruction on diseases of the mouth.
 
I'm a dentist. I do not give away anything for free and I charge what I believe is a fair fee for everything I do unless "I" decide to do pro bono work. The overhead in dentistry is really high and that costs money. Any time someone offers you something for "free" in dentistry they must make up for it somewhere.

FWIW, "deep cleanings" have always gotten a bad wrap mostly because they are genetic factors at play but more importantly patients almost never change their habits. The number one cause of tooth loss is periodontal disease which is primarily treated with deep cleanings. Patients typically get the "deep cleaning" and think they're done but with a combination of not changing their oral hygiene habits +/- bad genetics, they will eventually need it again.

This may sound harsh but it's the truth. Don't want it? That's your choice, they're not my teeth, I'm just the messenger but ultimately this is YOUR problem, not mine. I don't have periodontal disease.
Do you find that most people need deep cleanings even without a genetic predisposition or is this good preventative maintenance every few years in addition to regular cleanings?

What is the most expensive overhead in dentistry? I can see running an office and employees cost a lot but are the epoxies and expendables that expensive?
 
Do you find that most people need deep cleanings even without a genetic predisposition or is this good preventative maintenance every few years in addition to regular cleanings?

What is the most expensive overhead in dentistry? I can see running an office and employees cost a lot but are the epoxies and expendables that expensive?
No, there are very clear guidelines for deep cleanings but these may not be obvious to patients. If you have bone/attachment loss with subgingival calculus then you need scaling and root planing to debride the roots. This works well for some and for some it requires constant vigilance. Patients typically follow through initially and then burn out and stop. This is a communication issue - the dentist should be explaining WHY you need a deep cleaning and warn you the deep cleaning may still be insufficient and/or need to be redone frequently.

Overhead - Supplies and lab bills are huge - we get hit with the "dentist-tax" from suppliers where everything is twice the price. Also, payroll. I have 24 employees and payroll is $100,000 per month NOT including what my partner and I pay ourselves.
 
Do you find that most people need deep cleanings even without a genetic predisposition or is this good preventative maintenance every few years in addition to regular cleanings?

What is the most expensive overhead in dentistry? I can see running an office and employees cost a lot but are the epoxies and expendables that expensive?
The other issue is it's a CYA world. One of the most common lawsuits in dentistry is a patient comes in and is told they need a deep cleaning, they don't want to pay for it and instead they just want "regular cleanings". Years later they start losing teeth and they sue the dentist for failure to treat claiming they never knew the deep cleanings were that important. The dentist gets double screwed because the standard of care, which you can not go below even at a patient's request, was not met. Now the poor bastard is getting sanctioned by their state dental board or losing their license. So, if you need something and don't want it that's fine but you will not be one of my patients and as much as that pissed you off I'm not assuming this liability.
 
So, if you need something and don't want it that's fine but you will not be one of my patients and as much as that pissed you off I'm not assuming this liability.
It's refreshing to hear that you won't have them as a PT.

I know way too many practices where they simply notate a PT's decision to pass on a recommended (usually required) procedure and/or set of X-Rays and keep seeing them for years. Those little notes will not protect them should one of the PTs decide to sue down the road when their teeth start falling out.
 
It's refreshing to hear that you won't have them as a PT.

I know way too many practices where they simply notate a PT's decision to pass on a recommended (usually required) procedure and/or set of X-Rays and keep seeing them for years. Those little notes will not protect them should one of the PTs decide to sue down the road when their teeth start falling out.
The same for radiographs. This argument is slightly nuanced but it makes sense when you think about it. You must provide informed consent - that is the standard of care that must be met 100% of the time. To provide informed consent you must have current radiographs and if you do not have current radiographs, you can not tell a patient that they do or do not have pathology - you can not provide informed consent. A patient can NOT waive their right to informed consent. A patient CAN deny treatment, but only AFTER they've been informed of their disease state, and that requires radiographs. The most you can say without radiographs is I don't see any pathology but the reason we obtain radiographs in the first place is because they show us pathology we can not otherwise see.

No radiographs = I can't tell you want is wrong = you did not receive informed consent = and you MUST receive informed consent so dentist in the wrong.

Even some dentists think having the patient sign a waiver is sufficient when in reality you just admitted on paper you knew you were practicing below the standard of care and that not taking radiographs could be detrimental to the patient. Again, patient's can not sign away their right to informed consent.
 
Maybe just for piece of mind get a 2nd opinion.

But I don't mess around with my teeth. The last thing I want is to end up in dentures like my grandpa. Totally avoidable and if he took care of his teeth, he'd still have them.

I get them cleaned every 4 months. My insurance pays for 2 of them, I pay for the 3rd out of pocket for $58. And this is a dentist office in the fancy part of town.

Had braces for 3-1/2 years as a teenager. Afterwards had permanent retainers, one broke last year after 11 years so now I'm in Invisalign again (had a minor gap). Worth every penny to have this perfect smile.
 
I have dental implaints but my GF and wife did not....she is new in this area and looking for a dentist....we get all these "free xray....blah blah ....plus free cleaning on your first visit.
However the first visit turns into some special "deep cleaning" that cost 1400+ bucks ...we are retired so no ins. Yesterday was the 3rd time she was had this "deep cleaning" scam run buy her......I told her before you make another at give me the phone and i will flat ask is this some scam that suppose to be free that really cost 1400......or some yearly deal you prepay....everythig is turning into a "vacation home" style sales pitch....
Next it going to be before the doctor will see you we have this yearly prepaid medical deal for only 1200 you get upto 6 exams in person and two by phone! rant over....
Many Medicare plans have some basic dental benefit. Also-deep cleaning is not $1,400.00. Usually if you need deep cleaning you will bleed when you brush or floss.

There are inexpensive dental and vision insurance plans (I pay $34.00 a month for such) out there if your Medicare supplement plan doesn't cover this.
 
Last edited:
Deep cleaning sounds like what they recommend to new patients who haven't seen a dentist - any dentist - for decades.
This would be a reason for deep cleaning-yes. The chances of having a neglected mouth for years and not needing deep cleaning is pretty slim-it happens where it's not needed- but it's not in the majority of those who neglect their teeth.
 
Back
Top