No, my argument was exactly what I stated. If your “assailant” is so far away you need to compensate for bullet drop then it isn’t self-defense.
You’re talking about war. And what exactly is a “tactical” rifle anyway?
Defensive Rifle Zero Distance, Dont think that military zero is correct for you!
- Thread starter burbguy82
- Start date
You’re talking about war. And what exactly is a “tactical” rifle anyway?
Keltec Carbine or Ruger takedown 9mm?
Hmmm, small arms discussion.
We zero’d the 105mm cannon in our M60A3’s at 1,200 meters. The trajectory of the HVAPDS rounds (a 7.5 lb depleted uranium arrow) was such that if you aimed at the turret belt line of a Russian tank, you would hit something on that tank from point blank out to 2,000 meters.
That was before using the ballistic computer. This would take temperature, altitude, cross wind, relative target speed, ammunition type and range from the laser rangefinder to calculate the trajectory. It also worked with the coaxial machine gun so you could get first round hits at 1,000 m or more. The turret was stabilized so you could fire on the move. If everything failed, there was still a telescopic sight mounted to the gun, and hand traverse for the turret. We practiced all this stuff.
The 120mm smooth bore cannon used in newer NATO tanks has even wilder dynamics. A 10 lb DU warhead with a muzzle velocity of 6,000 fps. The shell casing is combustible. Their suspensions are much better so the gun is stabilized at high speeds.
We zero’d the 105mm cannon in our M60A3’s at 1,200 meters. The trajectory of the HVAPDS rounds (a 7.5 lb depleted uranium arrow) was such that if you aimed at the turret belt line of a Russian tank, you would hit something on that tank from point blank out to 2,000 meters.
That was before using the ballistic computer. This would take temperature, altitude, cross wind, relative target speed, ammunition type and range from the laser rangefinder to calculate the trajectory. It also worked with the coaxial machine gun so you could get first round hits at 1,000 m or more. The turret was stabilized so you could fire on the move. If everything failed, there was still a telescopic sight mounted to the gun, and hand traverse for the turret. We practiced all this stuff.
The 120mm smooth bore cannon used in newer NATO tanks has even wilder dynamics. A 10 lb DU warhead with a muzzle velocity of 6,000 fps. The shell casing is combustible. Their suspensions are much better so the gun is stabilized at high speeds.
I've loaded and tested several different .308 subsonic bullets trying to find something to hunt with. The best I've found are the Lehigh 198gr controlled fracturing and the Lehigh 194gr controlled chaos. The Hornady 190gr Sub-X bullets do a nice job of expanding and are a lot less than the lehigh bullets...but for hunting you don't need a whole bunch of them. All this was for a 300BO 8.5" SBR with a Q full nelson.
It won’t let me edit my original post now so I had to do a separate reply.
The thread title is “Defensive Rifle…” You just introduced a new term (“tactical”) into this discussionin order to make a spurious point.
My .257 Weatherby is zeroed at 300 yards and I have killed deer as close as 40 yards and as far as 357 yards with it. Is that sufficiently tactical?
Reloading is in my future. Right now, it’s commercial ammo in everything, including the .300 BLK.
I went with the Q Trash Panda, the titanium construction is just so light!
A Tactical Rifle is a straight stock, magazine fed, pistol grip equipped, self-loading rifle; firing intermediate (such as 5.56) or full powered (such as 7.62x51) Rifle (not pistol) ammunition.
Self loading here means at least semi auto.
Generally this term is used more specifically to describe civilian derivatives of service rifles (examples AR15, PTR91 and the like).
Some folks like to use the term "Assault Rifle" , but this is not correct ,as in order to be an Assault Rifle a weapon must also meet the following: be selective fire (ie a full auto selector or at least a burst selector position) and it must be intermediate rifle ammunition, such as 7.62x39mm or 5.56 (not an full powered round such as 308, and the like).
So a G3 derivative such a HK91 or a PTR can never be an "assault Rifle", even if it does feature selective fire.
So yes a civilian owned Tactical rifle has many featured common to military weapons.
However there are many operations other than war, that such a weapon might be usefull.
Living in a failing state, a WROL situation, or a grid down sitution, defending your dwelling agaisnt MS13 gangsters, may necessate the use of modern weaponry, above the level of a Pistol.
Not every action that involves greater than Pistol range, is "War".
Note that Police departments interestingly often call such firearms "defensive Carbines" and they are not equipping for "war" either.
You’re talking about anarchy, which is functionally the same as war. Even in that situation you’re likely not going to be flinging bullets at MS13 members 300 yards away.
This is prepper fantasy camp thinking. It isn’t real.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t own an AR and sight it in for distance, in fact, I keep one in the trunk of my car “just in case” for a riot or such, but I realize how silly that is. I’m just saying that if your think you’ll ever be using it on people at that distance you’re nurturing a homicidal fantasy.
Owning an AR15 and leanring to properly use it is not a homocidal fantasy.
Otherwise why do you own one?
Because if you belive shooting at targets over 25m is a honoscidal fantasy out of the reasonable expectations, then why not limit yourself to a pisotl?
Lighter, easier to carry and cheaper.
Fact is a lot of people intutively agree with the reasoning I outlined otherwise no one would onw an AR15 yet is it the most popular firearm in the country.
I really try to see your point but I struggle with it.
Its the same talking Point the media has been pushing down our throat for a couple of generations and its been as spurious then, as it is now.
But its a comfortable mental trap to fall into, "See, society, I own a firearm, but I am not one of those guys"
You still miss my point. No mental traps here. I think this dialogue is not being productive so I’ll withdraw from it.
And another thing ......... i started this thread to relay information, mostly to the uninformed.
It is funny how any mention of a gun, ends with killing folks, and how best to do it in the end of the world.
One of the coolest "tactical" rifles i ever saw was an IDF Ruger 1022.
What made it "tactical" it was a semi auto highly suppressed rifle that was employed to serve a tactic.
Any rifle can be tactical, and i would further argue, that the "assault rifle" as we commonly understand the definition is, by design the least "tactical" weapon there is, as they have no specific use, specific at least to any special tactic.....as they are the most well rounded general purpose weapons ever made, such as the AR or AK or the mentioned G3.
I hate the word tactical.
It is funny how any mention of a gun, ends with killing folks, and how best to do it in the end of the world.
One of the coolest "tactical" rifles i ever saw was an IDF Ruger 1022.
What made it "tactical" it was a semi auto highly suppressed rifle that was employed to serve a tactic.
Any rifle can be tactical, and i would further argue, that the "assault rifle" as we commonly understand the definition is, by design the least "tactical" weapon there is, as they have no specific use, specific at least to any special tactic.....as they are the most well rounded general purpose weapons ever made, such as the AR or AK or the mentioned G3.
I hate the word tactical.
Well, I guess I own a tactical rifle after all.
My FIL gave me a 10/22 for Christmas one year and since I already had one I cut it down to 10” and had it threaded. I added a folding stock and a silencer and now it’s used primarily as a boat gun because it fits in my dry storage compartment. Loaded with CCI standard velocity it’s Hollywood quiet and deadly on small game.
very nice, yours look meaner for sure.....below is a pic similar to my IDF reference earlier.
My experience is that many of these aficionados have enough ammunition for a lifetime.
Enough food for a month.
Enough water for a few days.
Enough medical supplies and training for a trip to the mall.
The best “prepared” people I know are cruising sailors.
I shot an assailant at a lasered 108 yards under nods last night from my porch. Now granted, they were assaulting my lawn, and were the size of a healthy loaf of bread, but this kit has more uses than the politicians try to convey.
Similar threads
