I read tons here about finished product, and I know the specialists here deal mostly with finished goods, but what about crude? I understand Venezuela and Iran have crude crude, but the Saudis, West Texans and Iraqis have sweet crude. So if the sweet light crude oils yield the most finished product in terms of gasoline and thus command the highest prices, what's a crude crude with a lot of sulfur go for, and what's it yield in terms of finished product? Anyone know crude oil? My curiosity goes up the more I read, but the papers are kinda vague.
Crude Quality
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JHZR2
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Crudes are benchmarked based upon the cost of processing. Hydrogen is the biggest consumed product in the refinery, due to the requirements of hydrodesulfurization, and the fact that the catalysts (typically Co/Mo) are not selective to the sterically hindered dibenzothiophene and similar compounds found in the crude. Because of the lack of selectivity, the HDS process opens up all the aromatic rings and whatnot prior to releasing the sulfur. With the ever more stringent fuel rules, coupled with the fact that you have a sour crude, more hydrogen is required, costing more money to process. Plus, if additional hydrogen is required, theoretically steam methane reformation is required for makeup, adding more cost.
Cat crackers utilize various catalysts that tend to plug easily (zeolites, etc), and so regen is required and often. Many other processes are somewhat intensive, but overall, they are about the same from crude to crude, unless one is significantly heavier. HDS is where the current capital investment and cost is.
JMH
Cat crackers utilize various catalysts that tend to plug easily (zeolites, etc), and so regen is required and often. Many other processes are somewhat intensive, but overall, they are about the same from crude to crude, unless one is significantly heavier. HDS is where the current capital investment and cost is.
JMH
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Okay, pretend you're G'Kar and toocraz2yoo just asked, "What is truth ..and what is G0D?
You could say:
If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth… for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is [censored], but the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search - who does not bring a lantern - sees nothing. What we perceive as [censored] is the by-product of our search for [censored]. It may simply be an appreciation of the light… pure and unblemished… not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe - [censored] looks astonishingly like we do - or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and in all its flaws; and in so doing, better understand the world around us.
..but if at the end of all that, he still asked, "..but what is truth ..and what is G0D?
You could respond:
Truth is the river ..and G0D is the mouth of the river.
Essentially, it's more expensive to process, correct??
You could say:
If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth… for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is [censored], but the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search - who does not bring a lantern - sees nothing. What we perceive as [censored] is the by-product of our search for [censored]. It may simply be an appreciation of the light… pure and unblemished… not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe - [censored] looks astonishingly like we do - or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and in all its flaws; and in so doing, better understand the world around us.
..but if at the end of all that, he still asked, "..but what is truth ..and what is G0D?
You could respond:
Truth is the river ..and G0D is the mouth of the river.
Essentially, it's more expensive to process, correct??
Originally Posted By: toocrazy2yoo
I read tons here about finished product, and I know the specialists here deal mostly with finished goods, but what about crude? I understand Venezuela and Iran have crude crude, but the Saudis, West Texans and Iraqis have sweet crude. So if the sweet light crude oils yield the most finished product in terms of gasoline and thus command the highest prices, what's a crude crude with a lot of sulfur go for, and what's it yield in terms of finished product? Anyone know crude oil? My curiosity goes up the more I read, but the papers are kinda vague.
In basic terms you are referring to sour crude, or relatively higher sulfur, thicker crude (Venezuela), with perhaps a higher acid number, vs. sweet crude with lower sulfur and lower viscosity.
JMH is the power expert on the details as you can see.
I cannot for example talk in any detail as to what the crude oil in California is (was) like, Alaska, Russia, Brazil, Nigeria, Kuwait..etc. Maybe there is a nice table out there.
I read tons here about finished product, and I know the specialists here deal mostly with finished goods, but what about crude? I understand Venezuela and Iran have crude crude, but the Saudis, West Texans and Iraqis have sweet crude. So if the sweet light crude oils yield the most finished product in terms of gasoline and thus command the highest prices, what's a crude crude with a lot of sulfur go for, and what's it yield in terms of finished product? Anyone know crude oil? My curiosity goes up the more I read, but the papers are kinda vague.
In basic terms you are referring to sour crude, or relatively higher sulfur, thicker crude (Venezuela), with perhaps a higher acid number, vs. sweet crude with lower sulfur and lower viscosity.
JMH is the power expert on the details as you can see.
I cannot for example talk in any detail as to what the crude oil in California is (was) like, Alaska, Russia, Brazil, Nigeria, Kuwait..etc. Maybe there is a nice table out there.
I think Alaskan crude is better than that of California, but below that of Saudi Arabia.
By that I mean it's lighter than Cali's, but heavier than most of the foreign crude.
As for sulfur, crude oil is called "Sweet" if it's sulfur content is 0.5 or less by weight.
Alaskan oil has a sulfur content of about 1.1, and is considered an Intemediate Sour crude.
By that I mean it's lighter than Cali's, but heavier than most of the foreign crude.
As for sulfur, crude oil is called "Sweet" if it's sulfur content is 0.5 or less by weight.
Alaskan oil has a sulfur content of about 1.1, and is considered an Intemediate Sour crude.
Ok, but as regards sour crude vs. sweet crude, what's a sour crude bring on the world market? Is it all thrown together. all crude brings 98.00/bbl? Or is certain crude from certain areas recognized as sour or sweet and thus commands the price appropriate to the steps needed to get finished product? I guess what I'm ultimately angling for, and I'm just realizing this, does that creep in Venezuela get full price for his lousy crude?
Thanks for the answer, JH. Over my head a bit, but sounds like the same processes go on regardless, and only the by-products differ. A little blurb in the Washington Post this week made mention the oil from Venezuela is so thick it's only good for asphalt and the heaviest of lube oils and that there are only a few refineries that can handle the stuff, all of them here. They also said most of the oil we get from them is in trade for finished product as they have little refining capacity? It's surprisingly difficult to find stuff on the subject beyong engineering theory, not much on local conditions in these countries.. Thanks all!
Thanks for the answer, JH. Over my head a bit, but sounds like the same processes go on regardless, and only the by-products differ. A little blurb in the Washington Post this week made mention the oil from Venezuela is so thick it's only good for asphalt and the heaviest of lube oils and that there are only a few refineries that can handle the stuff, all of them here. They also said most of the oil we get from them is in trade for finished product as they have little refining capacity? It's surprisingly difficult to find stuff on the subject beyong engineering theory, not much on local conditions in these countries.. Thanks all!
JHZR2
Staff member
Yes indeed..Of course, they're talking pricing a little lower (50%), so I guess it's been awhile, but it gives me the slant..
T'anx, Jh..
T'anx, Jh..
Learned more today..thanks
guess that's why molten sulfur (delivered molten, 20 tonnes at a time) is less than a couple hundred bucks a tonne...there's so much of it coming in in our crude.
I've read that Oz produces about 90% of the oil that it uses. The stuff that we pump gets sold (as it's pretty decent), while oil for our fuels is imported.
guess that's why molten sulfur (delivered molten, 20 tonnes at a time) is less than a couple hundred bucks a tonne...there's so much of it coming in in our crude.
I've read that Oz produces about 90% of the oil that it uses. The stuff that we pump gets sold (as it's pretty decent), while oil for our fuels is imported.
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