Yep, issues with the 1.5L 3-cyl VC Turbo engine. Then there is the CVT and the fact that Nissan may not be around in a couple of years.
Considering a small SUV
- Thread starter Looger
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Ah, I forgot that I tested a Tiguan maybe 3 years ago (very short drivel, and it was darned impressive. Solid, quiet, decent acceleration and handling. Smooth and comfortable.
Had not considered the Ford Escape...
As far as the Subaru Nanny "pay attention" thing, can it can be disabled permanently?
My Honda has an attention/alertness thing which was never enabled.
Bob
Had not considered the Ford Escape...
As far as the Subaru Nanny "pay attention" thing, can it can be disabled permanently?
My Honda has an attention/alertness thing which was never enabled.
Bob
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The VW Tiguan is a very good vehicle. We owned a 2019. It's tight, well put together, good fuel mileage, we'll thought out interior, and no rattles.
Our main problem was that there were no dealers within 60 miles of us and there weren't many independent repair shops that worked on them.
We are on our 3rd Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost. I cannot attest to longevity, as we normally trade them out around 90K miles. Zero issues from any of those three. This latest one is a 2025 model, purchased in March of this year.
We recently purchased a 2025 Escape ST Line with the 1.5 and FWD. The power is adequate. We have no problem passing or merging onto the Interstate. The engine is pretty quiet compared to the VW 2.0 TSI. The newer Ecoboost 4 and 3 are the newer MPC line of engines.
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Agree with this-- the Mirage is one of the most solid cars one can get, and the simplicity of its design is a large part of the reason. Simple, reliable, economical, tight as a drum, and surprisingly satisfying to drive.
I have two 2017s (both bought used in 2023), so not in the market, but if needed, would definitely get another one used, and if that were not possible, would be looking at the Outlander Sport as an alternative.
With no screens, backup camera, or safety assists, my 2017 Mirages really have the feel of a 1980s Japanese econobox, a feel this is really nostalgic for me and I love it!
Totally agree on all that.
The Jatco CVT7 is a belt-driven CVT paired with a two-speed planetary gearset, a setup that I consider to be a very clever and effective design. I consider it to be a modernized PowerGlide!
When in the low-low range, the torque from that 1.2l 3-cyl is surprisingly high, which yields equally surprising peppiness in city driving. While no performance monster, it really is a bit of a hoot to drive in town!
I use cheap A3/B4 Euro oil (currently Castrol Euro 5W-40) with Microgard Select oils filters, both good for 10K OCI.
When changing oil, I also change transmission fluid (so 10K interval on that as well). I've rigged up a system to suck the fluid out of the fill/dipstick tube using the cheapest HF hand pump that I mated to a thin tube, and I do that with the right rear raised by backing onto a cheap HF ramp.
I routinely get 4.5-4.75 quarts out using that method, replaced with Castrol Transmax Universal ATF/CVT. Given the unique pairing of a CVT and standard planetary AT, I tend to think that this transmission may be unique in that an ATF/CVT universal fluid might be ideal for this transmission (rather than a compromise).
I also do a "spill and fill" coolant change every three years, using the well-regarded Peak Global Lifetime that I get for ~$10/gal (undiluted) during the regular killer sales on it at Menard's.
All-in-all, hard for me to imagine a more simple, reliable, easy/cheap-to-maintain vehicle than the Mitsubishi Mirage, and it sounds like all the same applies to the Outlander Sport, keeping that model on my radar screen as well.
I also recommend an Escape with the 2.0L engine.
The mirage is a fabulous car. It's such a shame the concept of a good simple reliable cheap car is going away.Agree with this-- the Mirage is one of the most solid cars one can get, and the simplicity of its design is a large part of the reason. Simple, reliable, economical, tight as a drum, and surprisingly satisfying to drive.
I have two 2017s (both bought used in 2023), so not in the market, but if needed, would definitely get another one used, and if that were not possible, would be looking at the Outlander Sport as an alternative.
With no screens, backup camera, or safety assists, my 2017 Mirages really have the feel of a 1980s Japanese econobox, a feel this is really nostalgic for me and I love it!
Totally agree on all that.
The Jatco CVT7 is a belt-driven CVT paired with a two-speed planetary gearset, a setup that I consider to be a very clever and effective design. I consider it to be a modernized PowerGlide!
When in the low-low range, the torque from that 1.2l 3-cyl is surprisingly high, which yields equally surprising peppiness in city driving. While no performance monster, it really is a bit of a hoot to drive in town!
I use cheap A3/B4 Euro oil (currently Castrol Euro 5W-40) with Microgard Select oils filters, both good for 10K OCI.
When changing oil, I also change transmission fluid (so 10K interval on that as well). I've rigged up a system to suck the fluid out of the fill/dipstick tube using the cheapest HF hand pump that I mated to a thin tube, and I do that with the right rear raised by backing onto a cheap HF ramp.
I routinely get 4.5-4.75 quarts out using that method, replaced with Castrol Transmax Universal ATF/CVT. Given the unique pairing of a CVT and standard planetary AT, I tend to think that this transmission may be unique in that an ATF/CVT universal fluid might be ideal for this transmission (rather than a compromise).
I also do a "spill and fill" coolant change every three years, using the well-regarded Peak Global Lifetime that I get for ~$10/gal (undiluted) during the regular killer sales on it at Menard's.
All-in-all, hard for me to imagine a more simple, reliable, easy/cheap-to-maintain vehicle than the Mitsubishi Mirage, and it sounds like all the same applies to the Outlander Sport, keeping that model on my radar screen as well.
It is a bit small for my uses, but I like the concept, and I'm very impressed with the 2 speed CVT as I didn't know they existed. That solves a lot of problems! Subaru should put that in all of their CVT's to give them some better crawl ratios.
An old school Lancer wagon with decent 30+ cuft cargo space would be nice. I like Mitsubishi's concept of KISS for their small car and SUV's but I don't know why all of them are so stingy on cargo space?
Hasn't the Mirage been discontinued?
They're still made today but no longer sold here. It's the dealer network that's the hard part. Wish they could figure something out. From all that i've read when people find out about these they travel long distances to buy them and are very happy with them saying they wish they knew about them sooner.
I’m sure the tires are not 45psi. It just feels that way. I got the same impression but we bought it anyway. Only went back to the dealer for a recall. Got the Sport which is the base model. Maybe a little small but big enough for us and a couple grandkids. Makes enough power. Mostly low speed driving around town but goes 80+ on the interstate just fine. Costco is 65 miles away if we avoid two lane state routes. Don’t need a turbo. Six speed automatic simple and efficient.
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Just to be clear, there's a 2-speed aspect to the Jatco CVT7 (JF015E), but it's not like a 4WD system where you control the H/L manually.
The CVT7 (that is also in many Nissan models) contains a complete two-speed planetary, classic "Power Glide-like" automatic transmission within it, as well as the standard belt-stye CVT.
When driving, you can feel the 1-2 shift as you would in any old-style transmission, but the fact that the planetary 2-sp is feeding its output to a standard belt-drive CVT means the rpms stay relatively constant regardless as to what gear the 2-sp is in.
The power flow goes like this:
Flywheel --> Torque Converter --> 2-sp planetary --> Belt-driven CVT -->Differential
I believe the main advantage of this setup is reliability rather than performance. By having the planetary 2-sp set a high and low gear range, I believe it takes pressure off the belt CVT, as the H/L of the 2-sp takes pressure off the CVT belt to have to travel between extreme ratios to get acceptably wide final ratios.
However, it is not the case that the 2-sp planetary is user-controllable; it does its own thing. On the other hand, there are three gearshift position, D, Ds, and L that do provide some control:
D is the standard EPA shift pattern that (IMO) lugs like crazy and I hate it. Use of this selection is what I believe causes many to conclude that the Mirage is a total dog. I do use this setting, but only when I'm doing sustained speeds of 60 mph or higher (where it works fine).
L is a low gear, and while I don't have any proof of this, I believe what it does is keep the 2-sp planetary in the first gear (and probably keeps the CVT at a low ratio as well). This really does feel like a crawl-ratio (and as I don't drive this car off road, I never use it). But if one wants a low range, it's there.
Ds is the middle ground, and I use it all the time when under 60 mph. Perfect balance of keeping the rev range up (for great power and torque) but not being obnoxiously high-strung.
When I mentioned the "high torque that makes the Mirage surprisingly peppy in town," what I meant was that:
1) There is a torque converter that will provide maximum torque multiplication at takeoff
2) the 2-sp planetary starts in low range at takeoff (but as per the above, you don't control that)
3) The CVT will start in the low range at takeoff
Points 2) and 3) are the low-low I was talking about, and coupled to a torque converter, the Mirage gets off the line far snappier than one would expect with a 1.2l NA engine.
It is for all those technical reasons (plus my extensive experience) that I really push back against those that scoff at the Mirage, calling it a total dog that can't get out of its own way.
That is simply a lie.
But after all that, let me note that the Mirage is not perfect. For me, almost all the imperfections add to the character of the car, so I consider them to be plusses rather than minuses, but I don't contend that they are not imperfections and that everyone would be happy with them:
1) They're pretty loud and a bit crude feeling. Almost agricultural; not the least bit luxurious. No problem for me as that totally fits my vibe and I prefer it.
2) Much of the loudness comes from the engine, and as a 3-cyl it has a fair bit of vibration. The loud 3-cyl sound coming straight into the cabin sounds (to my ear) very similar to a DD 6V-71, something that probably a lot of people are not going to enjoy, but I find to be beautiful and cool.
3) Wind buffeting-- this is the one I don't like. I live on the windy great plains, and at any speed over ~30 mph, it's a bit shocking how much you get blown around by even a moderate wind. I find this annoying and fatiguing.
So, while I think it's a great car and checks every one of my boxes, I could understand why it might not be everyone's cup of tea. Before purchase, I would suggest finding some way to get as long of a test drive as possible to see if it works for you.
It sounds about what I thought it was like, and I don't mind that type of vehicle, I should test drive one just get the experience.
My theory on side winds and buffeting is that the wheel alignment can make this a better or worse. Negative camber and toe -in have the tires pushing against each other with a bit of force or a lot, depending on the alignment, let's call it alignment thrust. Having a bit of alignment thrust is good for stability and initial turn in, and almost every car has quite a bit on the rear. Often the range of acceptable alignment specs make alignment thrust much different on the front and rear axle, so how each axle reacts to a side push from the wind can be quite different, and then you get some turning forces in addition to just the whole car moving sideways with the wind force. You could get a 4 wheel alignment check and get some idea what you've got now.
Front toe-in, is easy to play around with at home, just count flats on the tie rods to experiment with more or less, and you can set it back to what it was. Sometime rear toe in just as simple but I don't think the rear torsion beam has any adjustments?
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Interesting-- I hadn't even considered alignment as a contributor to wind buffeting. I happen to have an AMMCO 7955 alignment checker, so I could check for problems and correct in a matter of minutes.
But there is another reason why your theory might hold water:
There is a known issue with the 2014–2024 Mitsubishi Mirage rear hub spindles-- many cars left the factory with the rear axle beam welded slightly out of spec, causing permanent misalignment (toe and/or camber) that cannot be adjusted by conventional means. The rear suspension is a solid torsion beam with welded-on spindles, so if the weld geometry is off, there is no (standard) way to readjust (e.g., screw adjustment or shims).
Multiple owners on the Mirage Forum have documented rear axles out of spec from new. Some were replaced under warranty, but even replacement axles sometimes arrived misaligned. Some have had some success cold setting (using hydraulic jacks/chains or a really long pipe to tweak the axle beam to bring toe/camber closer to spec). This is non-standard, but it’s the only way since even axle replacement with new is not going to guarantee a fix.
Although I meant to, I never got around to testing my rear alignment. I'll have to do that, and you post makes me wonder if perhaps that has something to do with the wind buffeting I experience.
Note, however, other than this potential wind problem, if I have an alignment problem it's not giving any other symptoms. No handling issues or weird tire wear problems.
Thanks for the tip!
For a larger SUV than most the Mitsubishi Outlander is an excellent vehicle. My daughter has a 2022 and 72k with zero problems. It’s very comfortable and has a ton of features for the money .
My pick has to be the 2025 Kia Sportage hybrid. I bought this vehicle 4 months ago and have 11k on it . I did a lot of research on smaller SUV’s and this one won out . The warranty is the best . It’s good looking . I have had many people in parking lots ask me if they can look it over . The Hybrid has 227 hp and gets 38 MPG overall . It’s much quicker than. The standard version and much quieter.
In the 2025 there is no CVT or Dual Clutch transmission. Just a good old 6 speed . I have nothing but good things to say about the 1.6 liter turbo Smartstream motor but time will tell .
The seats are excellent and overall the interior is much better than the other five vehicles I’ve tested .
Only thing I ***** at is the rain sensing wipers . They never seem to work like I want them too.
The AWD system seems to work well . I’m in Wisconsin first blizzard of year and seems very stable in blowing snow covered icy conditions.
Good luck in your hunt for a small SUV . Interest rates seem to be getting better!
My pick has to be the 2025 Kia Sportage hybrid. I bought this vehicle 4 months ago and have 11k on it . I did a lot of research on smaller SUV’s and this one won out . The warranty is the best . It’s good looking . I have had many people in parking lots ask me if they can look it over . The Hybrid has 227 hp and gets 38 MPG overall . It’s much quicker than. The standard version and much quieter.
In the 2025 there is no CVT or Dual Clutch transmission. Just a good old 6 speed . I have nothing but good things to say about the 1.6 liter turbo Smartstream motor but time will tell .
The seats are excellent and overall the interior is much better than the other five vehicles I’ve tested .
Only thing I ***** at is the rain sensing wipers . They never seem to work like I want them too.
The AWD system seems to work well . I’m in Wisconsin first blizzard of year and seems very stable in blowing snow covered icy conditions.
Good luck in your hunt for a small SUV . Interest rates seem to be getting better!
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We test drove probably 8-10 different economy CUVs before buying our CRV. The only reason, and I mean literally the only reason, we didn’t get a CX-5, was because the CRVs rear doors swing 90* and the wife wanted that for car seats. Otherwise, it wasn’t even close for the top two, the top being the CX-5. After the drives, it was Cx-5 or CRV, and the rear doors 90* won.
JHZR2
Staff member
I know you said you didn’t want a hybrid, but I scratch my head why.
New cr-v looks decent. First time the lines are really appealing to me. Rav-4 is long in the tooth and everyone I’ve known that owns one has had issues with it, but they are returning great MPGs and generally loved.
New cr-v looks decent. First time the lines are really appealing to me. Rav-4 is long in the tooth and everyone I’ve known that owns one has had issues with it, but they are returning great MPGs and generally loved.
