Considering a small SUV

[meep]

We went from a CRV to a RAV4H. The rav4h is really well executed. The hybrid drivetrain is FUN and punches above its weight class for driving dynamics. The Mazdas are great vehicles - I can’t get the appearance of the front overhang out of my mind and aesthetically that breaks me a little. X3 is considered one of the best used vehicles to buy, understanding that O&M will be more than a Japanese vehicle, but they are well made and solid, and well appointed, unless you want one with specific features like radar cruise and then you have to play odd trim/year games until you find the right one and it doesn’t have heated seats. Oh on seats, X3s tend to be loved or hated, with little in-between. Suggest *long* test drive.

I’d like to offer a head nod to the H/K family - I hear of fewer engine failures in the newer ones, and the design language looks good to the eye, but I have no experience with them.

As far as the Honda 1.5t, having owned one, I found it to be bulletproof and excellent to drive. I changed the oil ahead of schedule and mixed in a little 5-30 and didn’t have any issues with funky oil levels and gas smells in it from fuel dilution. Has the internet blown that out of proportion from the tribologists? We had a 2015 CRV with the earth dreams 2.4. Ours started making grinding noises in the CVT which was a crying shame. Traded it in at that point.

Volvo s60? Super comfortable.

 

[Looger]

Excellent advice, thanks everyone--i'll keep reading!
I drove a RAV4 hybrid, and it was pretty nice. The system was seamless, and Toyota has it nailed.
But, I'm still wary about another system that can fail.

The CX50 is hot!
BMW? WOW! So tempting...but my terrible frugality is... terrible.

I think I'll organize my needs in this general order: reasonably quiet, decent seats, good ride (but not floaty mush), space for a small family trip (most have enough space, though the CX 5 is slightly smaller than others), balanced handling, good balance of power and mileage.

Regarding acceleration, I prefer 0-60 of around 8 seconds. Why? I've found this allows me to handle anything within reason. My old 09 Impala was 8.1.
The Accord is a full second faster.
Some cars on my list are allegedly in the 9 to nearly 10 seconds range.

My needs are remarkably vanilla, but it is surprising how many cars have bizarre quirks.

I was wary of CVT, and still have reservations. However, Honda really dialed theirs well. My Accord and Wife's CRV are solid. So CVT is not a deal breaker. But...I prefer a regular transmission.

I need to test drive the Forester and Outback, and a handful of others.

I like the idea of rental! A 15min drive isn't enough.
However, I briefly checked rentals a couple years ago, and in my area, they didn't have anything interesting.
When we visit Florida, they seem to have a huge variety.
I'll check again.

Many thanks,
Bob

 

[Wireman1987]

How about the Mitsubishi outlander sport

 

[walterjay]

My family has a 23 and a 24 Tucson. So far zero problems. Very quiet and comfortable. Rides better than the majority of small SUV's out there. Getting near 30 mpg every day driving with AWD. After a few thousand miles they loosen up and have good power. I think Hyundai really stepped up their game recently.

 

[JavierH19]

Mitsubishi all the way....

Only the outlander sport and mirage are solid. The eclipse cross uses some junky turbo gdi 1.5L that I never will care for and the bigger outlander uses a nissan engine now. Love the old port injected NA engines though. This 4b12 has been bulletproof and has asked for nothing going on for 110k so far. Still doesn't burn a drop of oil.

 

[zzyzzx]

So many choices...

Ultimately it will probably be a coin toss, but any advice is appreciated...!

I would think that you would want to decide if you want 4WD/AWD and look at transmissions to avoid CVT's and dual clutch types to narrow down the choices.

 

[Wireman1987]

Only the outlander sport and mirage are solid. The eclipse cross uses some junky turbo gdi 1.5L that I never will care for and the bigger outlander uses a nissan engine now. Love the old port injected NA engines though. This 4b12 has been bulletproof and has asked for nothing going on for 110k so far. Still doesn't burn a drop of oil.

I believe one of BITOG members has recently got the outlander sport and reported back with great feedback and satisfaction with the vehicle.

 

[GW.]

How about the Mitsubishi outlander sport

I see more and more of these daily. They must be doing something right!

 

[I<3oil]

I see more and more of these daily. They must be doing something right!

Selling econoboxes for cheap, in this economy? Yep!

 

[Owen Lucas]

CR-V All the way. Jus thit 120k miles on a 2020 Hybrid. No mechanical issues other than 2 inconsequential recalls and the downpipe exhaust braiding fraying, which is only cosmetic. Parking sensors spaz out sometimes but the cars been amazing. I regret getting the extended warranty!

Its one of the best selling vehicles in multiple states for a reason.

 

[rstsco]

Has anyone mentioned cost to insure as part of your equation, especially when frugality is important?

When we bought the 2025 Pilot Elite after owning a 2022 Audi Q5, our insurance went down several hundred dollars per year. I realize your insurance company can't give an exact quote without a VIN, but you should be able to get within the ballpark while shopping. When the time comes to buy a specific vehicle, while sitting in the sales' office and before signing anything, call your insurance company with the VIN of the vehicle and get the exact price. It may also give you leverage negotiating.

 

[JavierH19]

Look for an outlander sport if you want a surprisingly reliable, durable, and surprisingly high quality well made cheap car. The other models aren't worthwhile. After 10 years and 111k miles there are zero squeaks, rattles or anything loose in the interior.

My 21 escalade had interior squeaks since it was new. Took it back to the dealer to warranty it and they said it's normal and that there's nothing to fix. If a cheap mitsubishi interior can be dead silent after so long so can something that costs 5x more. Ridiculous how GM still can't make a good interior even on their highest brand these days.

Opening the hood on this outlander sport is always a breath of fresh air because there's nothing going on. Looks like an early 2000's 4 cyl car with how little stuff there is. If you've looked under the hood of a modern car even domestic it's a rat's nest of stuff going everywhere.

This jatco CVT has been a pleasure. Truthfully I love the way a CVT drives that does not fake shift. It's a very nice smooth pleasant luxurious power delivery. It's the reason why I love my old 4 speeds. They don't have many ratios so they don't have many shifts. The 10 speed in my Escalade drives me nuts, I hate this piece of crap. I'll try to have a 6L90 or a built 6l80 put in if it blows out of warranty.

That jatco CVT will last an eternity if you take care of it and it is the fastest easiest simplest cheapest transmission I've ever serviced. You don't have to lift it up to take the easily accessible drain bolt out and let about 4.5 quarts out. There's a dipstick tube on top and I throw castrol transmax from Walmart into it and that transmission is dead silent and smooth. Never had one issue. But cvts are very intolerant of neglect. Once you go near 150k miles without changing the fluid be prepared to kiss it goodbye. But with regular maintenance they'll last over 300k trouble free.

 

[SEBZX79]

Bro get an EV 90percent less moving parts and you can get them for a song. Loving my zdx...

 

[Looger]

Oh yeah I forgot that I test drove a Tucson, I think maybe a 23 model? I remember it driving very nicely, and being comfortable and I think reasonably quiet. I recall it not feeling very powerful, which is okay. And if I'm not mistaken, I think that's the one with the weird electronic shifter?
I went on to the Tucson forums at the time, and apparently there were a lot of people having electronics issues, many of which involved the transmission. This was a big turn off so I pretty much looked away from the Tucson.
However, if they've straightened out the problems, I would certainly consider one.

Think it was about 8 or 9 years ago. We had a Mitsubishi rental sedan which drove really nice. Handling was excellent, reasonable power, and pretty comfortable.

And of course the CRV is high on my list as well. My wife's bare bones 2017 is a pretty nice ride overall. However, it is not even close to being quiet, and my understanding is that only this year did they seem to make much of an improvement in that regard.

I'm not looking for utter silence, but if I have to raise my voice talk at 70 mile per hour, that's just a bit too loud. It also makes it hard to hear people, and I find the constant noise fatiguing, especially on long trips.

Kind of a mild rant here, but it would be so easy for manufacturers to add a little bit of sound deadening material and make a few small tweaks so their cars could be quieter.
I know people that have added the sound deadening material to their cars and the difference was night and day. But they had to rip them completely apart to do it....

Yay, CAFE standards = tin can cars!

Bob

 

[bigjohn]

My sons and I have always loved VW and my younger son was the Finance Mgr at a VW dealership for 6 years, before moving to Toyota. But these modern VW’s are way, way to electronically automatic and complicated. On the other hand, my 80 year old father in law, has a pretty new Honda Pilot and I am so dang impressed. If I wanted, needed a small SUV, that would me my choice.

 

[Urshurak776]

My family has a 23 and a 24 Tucson. So far zero problems. Very quiet and comfortable. Rides better than the majority of small SUV's out there. Getting near 30 mpg every day driving with AWD. After a few thousand miles they loosen up and have good power. I think Hyundai really stepped up their game recently.

Losing any oil? I won't trust Hyundai again until there is some longevity on those SmartStream Engines, or whatever they're called.

 

[Danno]

Excellent advice, thanks everyone--i'll keep reading!
I drove a RAV4 hybrid, and it was pretty nice. The system was seamless, and Toyota has it nailed.
But, I'm still wary about another system that can fail.

You may find this YT video interesting. I have a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid. The hybrid system is smooth and has good power. The fuel savings are a bonus imo. Good luck on your search.

 

[IveBeenRued]

My 2020 RAV4 Hybrid is at 115K miles. No issues to note. The only repair was I had to replace the rear power lift gate motorized struts at about 110K. Total cost was sub $400 and easily done at home in about 10 minutes. Lifetime mileage average is around 40 MPG.

 

[walterjay]

Losing any oil? I won't trust Hyundai again until there is some longevity on those SmartStream Engines, or whatever they're called.

Neither have used a drop

 

[mco30mco]

Thinking about ditching my 19 Accord.
Great car I many ways: insanely good mileage, reasonably quick, drives great, pretty reliable, surprisingly roomy.
The driver assist stuff is VERY well executed (lane keep/assist and adaptive cruise).

But... uncomfortable seats, limited capabilities in winter (does fine with CC2 tires, but I get nervous as the snow increases in SE Michigan), LOW ground clearance, too much road noise.
And I'm a little concerned about the 1.5T longevity.

I don't want a hybrid.

So:
Honda CRV.
Tons of posivies, but:
Expensive, not particularly quiet (apparently the 25 models are quieter), questionable engine longevity (1.5T).

Subaru Forester.
Mechanically looks like a winner.
25 model is quieter and improved in several ways.
But: Sluggish engine, NANNY crap that nags you to watch the road or decides to slam the brakes for no reason, has a giant stupid slow touch screen.
Amazing that what is otherwise a well designed vehicle may be ruined by garbage electronics.

Hyundai Tucson.
Lots of good stuff.
But: really slow basic engine with low mileage. A lot of electronics makes me a little wary. There were a lot of early electronics issues early on. Questionable reliability.
Was quiet on a brief test drive.

Kia Sportage
Similar to Tucson, didn't test drive thought.

Nissan Rogue.
Decent on paper, but read that it has a too much cabin noise.

Mazda CX5.
Test drove several times briefly.
Drove well and was quiet. Decent acceleration. I like the drivetrain's mechanical simplicity.

But: small, narrow, firm seats. Very firm ride (the Accord is firm, yet absorbs bumps well), but I need to do more test drives and bring a pressure gauge, because maybe they were at 45psi...
Also, it is a little smaller than I would prefer, and outward visibility isn't great.

Subaru Outback.
Similar to Forester.

Chevrolet Equinox.
Ugh. Decent on paper...kinda.
Might do a test drive, but it doesn't seem to have any real standout features (poor mileage, not quiet?)

So many choices...

Ultimately it will probably be a coin toss, but any advice is appreciated...!

Grab a Ford Escape 2.0 awd. They aren’t gonna make them anymore and they are offering great incentives 0 percent 0 payments for 3 months and 0 down payment. Very reliable and tried and true. Ford has been ending all there reliable affordable vehicles the last few years. I grabbed an Edge right before they ended production. It also has the 2.0 ecoboost and it has been perfect. I’ve had the 2.0 in a few others too and they were perfect too. Just stay away from the little 3 cylinder. I’m also in SE Michigan and the awd with Michelin cross climates is awesome.