Complete HVAC Job With Tankless Water Heater

Zee09

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Why did they spec a furnace with a heat pump? That makes absolutely no sense to me because heat pumps by design provide by AC and Heat.
I have a hybrid system now.
Heat pumps here usually don't cut it
when it gets cold....cost wise.
I even use the auxiliary function on mine. Straight AC and oil.
They priced it but I prefer the basic units. Heat pumps run too long for me.
Hybrid setups don't have the heat strip here.
 
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Remember one thing with central AC. You can buy the best unit but have a bad install and your left with a horrible system and years of headaches. Get the best installation you can make sure it's sized right and duct work is top notch.
 
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I have a house in DE so probably similar climate as OP and the previous owner had Trane 6 ton and 4 ton heat pumps installed, no furnace. Seems to work fine. Booster coils do not come on very often. I think Trane is near the top for quality and reliability.

As you look into the future more and more things will drop fossil fuel and go to all electric. But propane will probably be around for the life of your unit. May get more expensive however.
You have a mansion in DE???
 
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I have a hybrid system now.
Heat pumps here usually don't cut it
when it gets cold....cost wise.
I even use the auxiliary function on mine. Straight AC and oil.
They priced it but I prefer the basic units. Heat pumps run too long for me.
Hybrid setups don't have the heat strip here.
Strange being that you're in the upper range of not terribly cold climate zone 4. Cold climate heat pumps (100% Effeciency @ 5F) have been used in New England for years.
 
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The bosch heat pumps are made by midea in china. The furnaces appear to be re labeled goodman furnaces.

I have installed a ton of the bosch heat pumps. Most customers love them because they cut the power bill down noticeably. I actually installed one in my own house as well. I have a love hate relationship with mine though. These units do not dehumidify well so be aware of that. Its a known issue in the hvac community too. Bosch has yet to come up with a real solution to this problem. The problem is the compressor being a variable speed takes too long to ramp up. So by the time the evaporator coil gets cold enough to start dehumidifying the unit is shutting down because the thermostat has satisfied. Also in heat mode they take a long time to start putting out heat. Again ramp speed on the compressor is too slow. There is a dip switch on the board to increase the ramp speed but it makes no appreciable difference in my opinion. These units are also picky about thermostats. Ive tried a few different ones here to try to get this thing to run the best it can. Finally set on an ecobee because it allows you to set a minimum run time. This all applies to the 18.5 seer version 1.0.

Bosch has a 20.5 seer 2.0 version now. I have yet to touch one but I see they still seem to have the dehumidifying problem. I'm on the fence about these bosch heat pumps after having one in my own house. If the furnace they have is indeed a goodman I would pass on it. Shame bosch would put their name on a goodman furnace but nothing is surprising.
 
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Is Bosch HVAC made by Carrier? I'm guessing $25,500.
The Bosch heat pumps and air handlers are very reasonable. My IDS 2.0 4-ton changed out was about $10k but the real advantage was there was a $1250 per ton rebate on dual-fuel heat pumps. Because Bosch IDS 2.0 systems on come in 1-2 ton and 3-5 ton units, you get credit for either a 2-ton even if you have a 1 or 1.5 ton unit or credit for a 5-ton even if you have a 3 or 4-ton unit for rebates.

$6250 in rebates on a $10K system is pretty sweet. Obviously, rebates differ by location but this gives you an idea of what's available.
 
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Zee09

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The bosch heat pumps are made by midea in china. The furnaces appear to be re labeled goodman furnaces.

I have installed a ton of the bosch heat pumps. Most customers love them because they cut the power bill down noticeably. I actually installed one in my own house as well. I have a love hate relationship with mine though. These units do not dehumidify well so be aware of that. Its a known issue in the hvac community too. Bosch has yet to come up with a real solution to this problem. The problem is the compressor being a variable speed takes too long to ramp up. So by the time the evaporator coil gets cold enough to start dehumidifying the unit is shutting down because the thermostat has satisfied. Also in heat mode they take a long time to start putting out heat. Again ramp speed on the compressor is too slow. There is a dip switch on the board to increase the ramp speed but it makes no appreciable difference in my opinion. These units are also picky about thermostats. Ive tried a few different ones here to try to get this thing to run the best it can. Finally set on an ecobee because it allows you to set a minimum run time. This all applies to the 18.5 seer version 1.0.

Bosch has a 20.5 seer 2.0 version now. I have yet to touch one but I see they still seem to have the dehumidifying problem. I'm on the fence about these bosch heat pumps after having one in my own house. If the furnace they have is indeed a goodman I would pass on it. Shame bosch would put their name on a goodman furnace but nothing is surprising.
Great info thanks.
The dealer was bashing Goodman.
Maybe they don't know?
American Standard is the way I'm leaning.

Bosh appliances I bought for my parents were short lived and pretty sparse on features. Not a fan at all.
 
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The bosch heat pumps are made by midea in china. The furnaces appear to be re labeled goodman furnaces.

I have installed a ton of the bosch heat pumps. Most customers love them because they cut the power bill down noticeably. I actually installed one in my own house as well. I have a love hate relationship with mine though. These units do not dehumidify well so be aware of that. Its a known issue in the hvac community too. Bosch has yet to come up with a real solution to this problem. The problem is the compressor being a variable speed takes too long to ramp up. So by the time the evaporator coil gets cold enough to start dehumidifying the unit is shutting down because the thermostat has satisfied. Also in heat mode they take a long time to start putting out heat. Again ramp speed on the compressor is too slow. There is a dip switch on the board to increase the ramp speed but it makes no appreciable difference in my opinion. These units are also picky about thermostats. Ive tried a few different ones here to try to get this thing to run the best it can. Finally set on an ecobee because it allows you to set a minimum run time. This all applies to the 18.5 seer version 1.0.

Bosch has a 20.5 seer 2.0 version now. I have yet to touch one but I see they still seem to have the dehumidifying problem. I'm on the fence about these bosch heat pumps after having one in my own house. If the furnace they have is indeed a goodman I would pass on it. Shame bosch would put their name on a goodman furnace but nothing is surprising.
Sounds like oversized equipment...on hot humid days shouldn't properly sized equipment run most of the time? How short is the run time that the coil is not getting cold enough to the point where it is not dehumidifying?

I have a 4 ton Bosch IDS 2.0 heat pump with the Bosch BCC 100 thermostat that was installed this past spring. I read about and watched videos on the humidity issues with the Bosch IDS systems but have not had any issues. The SW4 dip switch is on for the cooler the coil temp and we keep the house at 68F. The house is 3000sqft and it's been very hot and humid here this summer. On days above 85F the system runs 100% of the time but cycles between stage 1 and stage 2 during the day. The house is in full sunshine during the day. Humidity is generally between 50-55% and only creeps up to the low 60's at night when system finally cycles off. Once it cycles back on humidity goes down almost immediately to the mid 50's. We hit 96F a few times this summer and 95F was threshold at which temp starting to creep up to 69-70F and the unit could not keep up but I'll take a 27F difference between outside and inside temp.

This replaced a 25 year old Rheem that still cooled but my electric bill has gone down from AC adding $300 per month to my electric bill to only adding $115 to my electric bill. So far I'm happy.
 
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We hit 96F a few times this summer and 95F was threshold at which temp starting to creep up to 69-70F and the unit could not keep up.
Funny how people in different climates have their own feeling of "normal". For example it's 74 degrees in my house and feels a bit chilly at 72/73 for summertime temps.
 
Joined
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The bosch heat pumps are made by midea in china. The furnaces appear to be re labeled goodman furnaces.

I have installed a ton of the bosch heat pumps. Most customers love them because they cut the power bill down noticeably. I actually installed one in my own house as well. I have a love hate relationship with mine though. These units do not dehumidify well so be aware of that. Its a known issue in the hvac community too. Bosch has yet to come up with a real solution to this problem. The problem is the compressor being a variable speed takes too long to ramp up. So by the time the evaporator coil gets cold enough to start dehumidifying the unit is shutting down because the thermostat has satisfied. Also in heat mode they take a long time to start putting out heat. Again ramp speed on the compressor is too slow. There is a dip switch on the board to increase the ramp speed but it makes no appreciable difference in my opinion. These units are also picky about thermostats. Ive tried a few different ones here to try to get this thing to run the best it can. Finally set on an ecobee because it allows you to set a minimum run time. This all applies to the 18.5 seer version 1.0.

Bosch has a 20.5 seer 2.0 version now. I have yet to touch one but I see they still seem to have the dehumidifying problem. I'm on the fence about these bosch heat pumps after having one in my own house. If the furnace they have is indeed a goodman I would pass on it. Shame bosch would put their name on a goodman furnace but nothing is surprising.
Ever install ducted minisplits?
 

Zee09

$200 Site Donor 2022
Thread starter
Joined
May 5, 2018
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Fairhill Maryland
The bosch heat pumps are made by midea in china. The furnaces appear to be re labeled goodman furnaces.

I have installed a ton of the bosch heat pumps. Most customers love them because they cut the power bill down noticeably. I actually installed one in my own house as well. I have a love hate relationship with mine though. These units do not dehumidify well so be aware of that. Its a known issue in the hvac community too. Bosch has yet to come up with a real solution to this problem. The problem is the compressor being a variable speed takes too long to ramp up. So by the time the evaporator coil gets cold enough to start dehumidifying the unit is shutting down because the thermostat has satisfied. Also in heat mode they take a long time to start putting out heat. Again ramp speed on the compressor is too slow. There is a dip switch on the board to increase the ramp speed but it makes no appreciable difference in my opinion. These units are also picky about thermostats. Ive tried a few different ones here to try to get this thing to run the best it can. Finally set on an ecobee because it allows you to set a minimum run time. This all applies to the 18.5 seer version 1.0.

Bosch has a 20.5 seer 2.0 version now. I have yet to touch one but I see they still seem to have the dehumidifying problem. I'm on the fence about these bosch heat pumps after having one in my own house. If the furnace they have is indeed a goodman I would pass on it. Shame bosch would put their name on a goodman furnace but nothing is surprising.
The company just called and I ran your info by them. They too are aware of it but tried to say they think the hardware is Japanese.

Look they should know. I told them Germany started the whole Chinese revolution as I have been dealing with them since the late 70's.

The Germans tooled up many Chinese factories. You mean their units do not have a country of origin tag or stamp on them. They know where this stuff is made.

He got nervous about the Goodman question too. Really...lol

And yes they are seeing dehumidifying issues too. Just like you said.

China knocks off German products because they were once sent to them to manufacture. I see it all the time.

Bosch must have a sweet markup.
Thanks a bunch for your help.
 
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Funny how people in different climates have their own feeling of "normal". For example it's 74 degrees in my house and feels a bit chilly at 72/73 for summertime temps.
I like it when you break a sweat outside and walk inside and you instantly get goosebumps...lol. Don't get me wrong I'm sitting here watching TV with a blanket on me. In the winter we keep it at 64F although my wife tries to turn it down to 63 or 62F if I'm not looking.
 
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One thing to factor, if changing from regular hot water heater to tankless, will likely have to upgrade gas lines all the way back to the meter.
I had to upgrade mine back to the main supply line in the attic, as it was 1" from the meter up into the attic, then everything was supplied off the fat pipe in the attic. The line to the tankless was 3/4ths.

I'm surprised to see some of the comments though, I loved my Noritz tankless at my old house and never had any problems with it. Endless hot showers!! Mine was an exterior model, 7.5 GPM which was fine for 2 showers running simultaneously with the water saving 2.5 GPM heads, well at least in Austin, TX anyway where the tapwater is pretty warm year round.

In that old 60s home I used to have, I took the space from the old tanked model and a laundry room to create a half bath that didn't previously exist. Because of the way the house had been built initially, there was NO bathroom downstairs, 1450 sq foot 2 story with all bedrooms upstairs. The toilet sat right where the tanked water heater had been previously. The laundry was converted to a stackable and took up a fraction of the space than it had previously. Without the tankless water heater, this setup would not have been possible. This house also had a 1 car garage so I was loath to move the tanked water heater into the garage. The tankless was the solution.
 
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