New to the forum and researching oil. Just got back into changing my own oil after about a 12 years of hitting the quick lubes. Here is my question: I know we are all told '3 months or 3000 miles' with conventional oil which I never really believed but what about full synthetic? I ask because I have Valvoline 0w-20 full syn in my Chrysler mini van and it has been in there for almost 5 months but only has about 2000 miles on it. The van is used most days but for very short trips usually 2-3 times a day. Sees the highway once in a while but not much. Oil never gets to get really hot. Is it still okay to keep going or would fresh oil be better for my motor? I've always heard that your driving habits are the real factor in determining when you should change your oil. But, that was always the advice with dino oil. Going to be taking a road trip and running about 1700 miles in a week and wonder if new oil is the way to go for the trip. Or is the oil that's in there perfectly fine? And what about the filter? It's a FRAM which I hear is not good.
Change after a certain amount of miles or months?
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Welcome! You are right about the oil not getting up to temp. it is a really BAD thing. I don't care what oil you are using short trips are a recipe for sludge. I would say change now 2k/5mo. intervals with whatever you want. Get rid of the Fram too
JHZR2
Staff member
Some people will tell you that because of the short trips, you are running severe service and it must be changed. I know from experience of my mother's 5-block commutes, that this is not always the case. Do you put the van to some half-decent use, say 75+ miles once every so often? If so, it may not be an issue.
Really the best way to know for certain is to do a used oil analysis on your oil and see if moisture, fuel, wear metals, etc. are an issue. May be, may not be. Otherwise, the conservative route can be the best choice... But I personally prefer to be in the know and make the right choice based upon the facts available.
Hope that helps. WELCOME to the forum!!!
Really the best way to know for certain is to do a used oil analysis on your oil and see if moisture, fuel, wear metals, etc. are an issue. May be, may not be. Otherwise, the conservative route can be the best choice... But I personally prefer to be in the know and make the right choice based upon the facts available.
Hope that helps. WELCOME to the forum!!!
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Sonic
New to the forum and researching oil. Just got back into changing my own oil after about a 12 years of hitting the quick lubes. Here is my question: I know we are all told '3 months or 3000 miles' with conventional oil which I never really believed but what about full synthetic? I ask because I have Valvoline 0w-20 full syn in my Chrysler mini van and it has been in there for almost 5 months but only has about 2000 miles on it. The van is used most days but for very short trips usually 2-3 times a day. Sees the highway once in a while but not much. Oil never gets to get really hot. Is it still okay to keep going or would fresh oil be better for my motor? I've always heard that your driving habits are the real factor in determining when you should change your oil. But, that was always the advice with dino oil. Going to be taking a road trip and running about 1700 miles in a week and wonder if new oil is the way to go for the trip. Or is the oil that's in there perfectly fine? And what about the filter? It's a FRAM which I hear is not good.
You are wasting money using synthetic in that manner. I would switch to conventional in the oil weight recommended in your owners manual. If you decide to stay with synthetic, then run that engine at higher speeds for 15-20 minutes once every three weeks or-so. Getting that engine at normal temps will burn-off any moisture and allow a minimum of 5K OCIs.
New to the forum and researching oil. Just got back into changing my own oil after about a 12 years of hitting the quick lubes. Here is my question: I know we are all told '3 months or 3000 miles' with conventional oil which I never really believed but what about full synthetic? I ask because I have Valvoline 0w-20 full syn in my Chrysler mini van and it has been in there for almost 5 months but only has about 2000 miles on it. The van is used most days but for very short trips usually 2-3 times a day. Sees the highway once in a while but not much. Oil never gets to get really hot. Is it still okay to keep going or would fresh oil be better for my motor? I've always heard that your driving habits are the real factor in determining when you should change your oil. But, that was always the advice with dino oil. Going to be taking a road trip and running about 1700 miles in a week and wonder if new oil is the way to go for the trip. Or is the oil that's in there perfectly fine? And what about the filter? It's a FRAM which I hear is not good.
You are wasting money using synthetic in that manner. I would switch to conventional in the oil weight recommended in your owners manual. If you decide to stay with synthetic, then run that engine at higher speeds for 15-20 minutes once every three weeks or-so. Getting that engine at normal temps will burn-off any moisture and allow a minimum of 5K OCIs.
I said the van doesn't see the highway much but it does see it. Usually only on weekends but not every one. It is our primary vehicle for taking the kids to and from school, running errands, getting grocieres. We also use it for trips but that's only maybe twice a year. Typically I'd say it gets more miles but this winter must be an all time low. Haven't taken it anywhere too far really. I did run it 55 miles on the highway last weekend and two weeks before that it got 120 miles from the highway. I also let it warm up for about 10 minutes before driving becuase of the cold weather. I'd always heard that the warming and cooling of oil is what breaks it down and I have done alot of that on this oil. I just don't know if full synthetic oil is as subject to that as dino oil. The oil still looks really clean and I haven't had to add any.
Yeah, I think I will just go ahead and change the oil. That way I won't think about it anymore. The reason I run synthetic is because of the short trips and turning the engine on and off a few times a day. I figured it would be better for it and with the cold too, synthetic would protect better at startup than dino oil. I have a bunch of 5 quart jugs just sitting in the basement anyway that I picked up on sale from Wal-mart. Just need to get a new filter. Like I said, I have been using FRAM on my van, I use SUPERTECH on my wifes Subaru. Maybe get the Supertech for the van too. I run Mobil 1 in her car and at almost 4000 miles the oil still looks great. It gets about 250-300 miles a week. I change that every 5000 miles and it doesn't use a drop.
25 bucks or so for an oil change with synthetic oil seems pretty cheap to me. Back when I'd go to the quick lube places it would be around $50. Even if the oil is okay and could go alot further it's no big deal to change it. It'll just make me feel better to take it on a trip with fresh oil. Heck, it costs $50 just to fill it up with gas!! Makes $25 for an oil change every 4-5 months seem cheap.
25 bucks or so for an oil change with synthetic oil seems pretty cheap to me. Back when I'd go to the quick lube places it would be around $50. Even if the oil is okay and could go alot further it's no big deal to change it. It'll just make me feel better to take it on a trip with fresh oil. Heck, it costs $50 just to fill it up with gas!! Makes $25 for an oil change every 4-5 months seem cheap.
If synthetic is a waste of money, then a lot of people from a lot of sources (not just oil companies) have been lying to me.
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
And synthetic will protect better in those cold Ohio temps.
I've never arrived at a satisfying answer, but until better info comes along, as a short-tripper I wouldn't go more than 5 months on any oil. The reasoning behind changing based on time (rather than mileage) is that as a short-tripper, it takes a really long time to get up to the mileage cutoff, and by then, the oil is shot.
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
And synthetic will protect better in those cold Ohio temps.
I've never arrived at a satisfying answer, but until better info comes along, as a short-tripper I wouldn't go more than 5 months on any oil. The reasoning behind changing based on time (rather than mileage) is that as a short-tripper, it takes a really long time to get up to the mileage cutoff, and by then, the oil is shot.
Right on with the gas price vs oil change price. Gas is inching ever closer to the ridiculous level again. Like someone said earlier a uoa is a good place to start to gauge your oci. I have not done one yet but plan to do so in the Spring.
Not all Fram filters are considered pos. The extended guard is considered stout by many on this forum.
Not all Fram filters are considered pos. The extended guard is considered stout by many on this forum.
Sonic, it's not that Fram is a "bad" filter. It's that you can get a way better filter costing less. Frams don't blow up engines. Look at WIX, PureOne, Bosch, Motorcraft. All excellent.
About your oil. The 0W20 is great oil and I'd leave it in. 2K miles is NOTHING. Next change, go conventional and change once a year.
About your oil. The 0W20 is great oil and I'd leave it in. 2K miles is NOTHING. Next change, go conventional and change once a year.
Originally Posted By: glum
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
Is that opinion, or is there some data to back that up with? I'm curious, as I am a short-tripper myself.
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
Is that opinion, or is there some data to back that up with? I'm curious, as I am a short-tripper myself.
Originally Posted By: bigdawg74
Originally Posted By: glum
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
Is that opinion, or is there some data to back that up with? I'm curious, as I am a short-tripper myself.
I'm the last person in this forum who will pretend to be some sort of motor oil expert. I'm in part deriving my statement from what I've read in "The Motor Oil Bible":
Quote:
Basically, the TBN of an oil is a relative indication of how well it can neutralize acid build-up within an oil and for how long it can do it. The higher the number the better equipped an oil is to neutralize acids from condensation, oxidation processes and combustion by-products. Generally, gasoline oils will have TBN values of 5 to 8 and diesel oils will have TBN values around 9 to 14. Most premium synthetics will have higher TBN values than petroleum oils[.]
...
Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
TBN values for various oils are easily obtained through product data sheets. A look at UOAs can be helpful too, methinks.
Originally Posted By: glum
I think synthetic is even more important when used in vehicles that see this kind of usage. It's not just moisture, it's acid buildup as well, which synthetics are generally better at dealing with.
Is that opinion, or is there some data to back that up with? I'm curious, as I am a short-tripper myself.
I'm the last person in this forum who will pretend to be some sort of motor oil expert. I'm in part deriving my statement from what I've read in "The Motor Oil Bible":
Quote:
Basically, the TBN of an oil is a relative indication of how well it can neutralize acid build-up within an oil and for how long it can do it. The higher the number the better equipped an oil is to neutralize acids from condensation, oxidation processes and combustion by-products. Generally, gasoline oils will have TBN values of 5 to 8 and diesel oils will have TBN values around 9 to 14. Most premium synthetics will have higher TBN values than petroleum oils[.]
...
Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
TBN values for various oils are easily obtained through product data sheets. A look at UOAs can be helpful too, methinks.
I don't want to offend anyone here, but this so-called "oil bible" isn't for me a bible at all.
It's just 372 pages of personal opinions by an individual who, I must admit, seems to have read a some pages on the subject.
But, the main problem I see is that there isn't any references at all in his book. Not a single one! He must be the only individual who has learned EVERYTHING through the Holy Smokes of Burning Oil.
And don't tell me " he his working in the oil industry for 20 years". I know many peoples who are doing the same ( i.e. selling and/or changing oil ) and still don't know sh.. about oil.
Ok, enough on this, back to the topic ( sorry glum but I had a bad day and tomorrow will be worse...).
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2000 miles by doing 2-3 short trips a day, you must have accumulated quite a bit of moisture.
Apart from acids build-up, your oil can become too thin. I have experienced it in my girlfriend's car where her oil level was actually
increasing
during winter.
0W20 is already very thin. Too thin and you can't have full hydrodynamic lubrication.
Do a UOA and then decide. If you can't, change it.
It's just 372 pages of personal opinions by an individual who, I must admit, seems to have read a some pages on the subject.
But, the main problem I see is that there isn't any references at all in his book. Not a single one! He must be the only individual who has learned EVERYTHING through the Holy Smokes of Burning Oil.
And don't tell me " he his working in the oil industry for 20 years". I know many peoples who are doing the same ( i.e. selling and/or changing oil ) and still don't know sh.. about oil.
Ok, enough on this, back to the topic ( sorry glum but I had a bad day and tomorrow will be worse...).
--------------
2000 miles by doing 2-3 short trips a day, you must have accumulated quite a bit of moisture.
Apart from acids build-up, your oil can become too thin. I have experienced it in my girlfriend's car where her oil level was actually
increasing
0W20 is already very thin. Too thin and you can't have full hydrodynamic lubrication.
Do a UOA and then decide. If you can't, change it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Welcome! You are right about the oil not getting up to temp. it is a really BAD thing. I don't care what oil you are using short trips are a recipe for sludge. I would say change now 2k/5mo. intervals with whatever you want. Get rid of the Fram too
pretty much
and switch at miles. Oil "Acidifies" if chemistry teaches me correctly!
Welcome! You are right about the oil not getting up to temp. it is a really BAD thing. I don't care what oil you are using short trips are a recipe for sludge. I would say change now 2k/5mo. intervals with whatever you want. Get rid of the Fram too
pretty much
and switch at miles. Oil "Acidifies" if chemistry teaches me correctly!
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