Castrol Syntec 5-50

MolaKule

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Iowegia - USA
As Vader says, check the owner's manual. If its under warranty, I would use what the manual says, "5W30 preferred, 10W30 for above zero to 100 degrees." If in doubt, Terry here would be glad to do an oil analysis. Why does your manual state about oil viscosities?
 

Patman

Staff member
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21,989
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Oakville, Ontario
Yikes, I would never use that 5w50 in my car, no matter how hot the ambient temp was in my area. It's just too big of a spread, and uses way too much VI improvers. Find a good quality 10w30 and you'll have more than enough high temp protection and it'll be way more stable, with little or no VI improvers in it at all.
 

Al

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19,168
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Elizabethtown, Pa
Yikes, I would never use that 5w50 in my car, no matter how hot the ambient temp was in my area. It's just too big of a spread, and uses way too much VI improvers I agree!!!
 

Ron

Messages
113
Location
Santa Fe,N.M.
Hi Guys, Thanks,I guess, for your opinions on Castrol Syntec 5-50.You would think I was guilty of inventing this nasty oil.Don't you think some research went into 5-50 Syntec?Actually, there is much said about these wide viscosity oils marketed by other companies.After 20K, should I do an analysis,and will it verify anything? Or, should I simply move on to another like Mobil-1 or dino oil.Yes, the manual calls for 5-30.It does not seem manuals keep folks on this and other forums from using better fluids.Am I really doing the wrong thing for this Ford Econoline Van?Thanks-Ron [Duh!]
 

Al

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19,168
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Elizabethtown, Pa
I like a 10W-30 oil. It needs to be syn or a good blend. I don't think Mobil 1 or Amsoil, I assume Shaeffers Full Syn and possibly their hydroprocessed/blend oil have no Polymers to shear down.
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
It's not the brand of oil I'm questioning, it's the viscosity. Although I'm sure that you know that you are paying for a Group IV level oil, and getting a Group III in actuality. Your manual recommends 5W30 and I assume 10W30 is acceptable. This means you are running too thick of an oil. Multivis does not mean that it stays at 30 until called on to be 50, it means that it behaves like a 50 when warm and like a 5 when cold. No 30 involved. I'd be curious how it handles 8k, and would encourage you to get it analyzed just to see how it works, but I would also switch to 10W30, if that is one of the oils called for. Higher viscosity does not mean it is better, just thicker, which means it flows slower. As for the brand... Many people on this forum(myself included) have a low opinion of Castrol, for bringing group III oils in as synthetic, when in reality, they are just a beter dino. It may be a fine oil, I just don't like it when companies charge full price for things they did not incur full cost in making. [ June 21, 2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 

Ron

Messages
113
Location
Santa Fe,N.M.
Does anyone have analysis on Castrol Syntec oils?I'm using 5-50(warm to hot climate)in my'99 Ford E150 4.2L six . I'm Driving 8K miles and changing oil twice yearly.Is that pushing the VI additive package of this oil? At 20K,I'd like to know this oil is OK for the long haul in my Ford Van.Thanks. Ron [Eek!]
 
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2,077
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Cordelia, CA
Does it call for a 50 weight in the manual? If it's like most engines and calls for 5W30, I would not run anything other than that or 10W30.
 

MolaKule

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Iowegia - USA
Ron, you never did answer the question, "What does your owner's manual say." If in doubt, I highly recommend the Amsoil 10W30 (ATM) for summer which was orignially formulated for turbo boosted cars. I use it in all my vehicles, lawn equipment, etc, except the Kohler engine, in which I use the 15W40 AME. Advantages: 1. Full synthetic (PAO, polol ester). 2. Narrow viscosity range. 3. Formulated to resist oxidation in the high temp environment of the turbo.
 
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Ocala, Florida
Mola, I'd sure wish you'd post your oil analysis reports on the board since you seem to be a big amsoil fan I'd think sharing that would let us all see just how good this oil really is under real life conditions and especially if you are using it the way it was ment to be used. If you get a chance, would you consider doing that, especially if you have a trending report.
 
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302
Location
Chicago
I'm not a chemist or a tribolowhatsit, but I do have some gut feelings about viscosity, and my gut tells me that the viscosity requirements given in owner's manuals have more to do with cheap ways to meet C.A.F.E. requirements than they do with what is really best for engines. Your owner's manual says 5w-30? It's always amazed me how manufacturers all seem to make these leaps in viscosity requirements -- like they did when they all suddenly started requiring 5w-30 -- without any significant changes in engine design. Honda and Ford now say 5w-20 -- did they redesign the engines with tighter tolerances or something? Uh, no. They wanted a quick and dirty way to get under the C.A.F.E. ceiling. In my opinion, that's the main reason (notice I said *main*, not *only*) manufacturers began to spec anything under 10w-40 in the first place. As for viscosity improvers, it seems to me that they ain't what they used to be. Is it not true that as advances have been made in the formulation of oil and their additive packages, advances have also been made in the viscosity index improvers used to create wider spreads? Isn't this especially true where PAOs are concerned, which have a naturally higher VI to begin with? Why do you suppose we don't see 5w-50 weights in "standard" dino oil? While I wouldn't keep a 5w-50 in my engine much longer than 3000 - 4000 miles, I doubt very much whether the VI improvers would wreak much havoc in that amount of time. It might sheer back to a 40 or 30 in that time, but so what? [ June 21, 2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: kev99sl ]
 

Patman

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Oakville, Ontario
One of the problems I have with VI improvers is that they have no lubricating qualities to them, so having more of them means there is less room for what is most important, protecting your engine from friction! I still believe that a good old 10w30 is the best viscosity for 95% of the cars on the road.
 
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2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
I don't see why they would put in an owners manual "20W50 and all other viscosities not recommended"(5W30 & 10W30 recommended) unless it was not good for your engine. CAFE does not explain it. They have to meet CAFE, so they put 5W30 in and recommend 5W30. That does not mean that they have to say 20W50 not recomended.) The owners manual is full of little warnings like that. When I run an engine(hard) to 160k on 5W30 and it's still running as good as new, I have to question the validity of higher viscosity oils being better. I understand 10W30 being better because it has less VI improvers. I want good oil flow and good film strength, and 10W30 seems to fill that need well.
 

MolaKule

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BobIs, I am ordering some more Analysis kits today, so as soon as I have something, I will post it in the analysis section. BTW, I am only a fan of Amsoil because of their quality control and oil chemistry. I have and still do use certain other oils for personal engines. For example, I am using Mobil 1 10W30 (new formula) in a smaller farm tractor (gas engine), and Mobil 1 15W50 (diesel engine), to see how they compare with Amsoil. I am also going to (eventually) run some tests with Schaeffer's products to see how their synth's and blends stack-up. I only wish those same esters found in today's jet engines were available at Amsoil's or Mobil's prices. We wouldn't have oxidation or VI shearing. When you have an oil that can take 2,000 F for over a year without an oil change change, you have something. The main difference I guess [Dual] between jet engines and automotive engines (AE) is that [Off Topic!] in jet engines, the oil never sees the combustion flame or it's by-products, whereas in an AE, it does. Now the other difference is temps. Jet engine temps are much higher than AE temps, so oxidation is more severe.
 
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302
Location
Chicago
quote:
Originally posted by VaderSS: I don't see why they would put in an owners manual "20W50 and all other viscosities not recommended"(5W30 & 10W30 recommended) unless it was not good for your engine. CAFE does not explain it. They have to meet CAFE, so they put 5W30 in and recommend 5W30. That does not mean that they have to say 20W50 not recomended.) The owners manual is full of little warnings like that. When I run an engine(hard) to 160k on 5W30 and it's still running as good as new, I have to question the validity of higher viscosity oils being better. I understand 10W30 being better because it has less VI improvers. I want good oil flow and good film strength, and 10W30 seems to fill that need well.
My owner's manual doesn't say anything like, "20w-50 and all other viscosities not recommended," but if it did that'd be a different matter. Nonetheless, you don't think CAFE has anything to do with it? Do you know what kind of penalties car makers receive if they don't meet CAFE? Trust me, there's quite an incentive there to meet the requirements. Why do European cars magically change requirements half way across the Atlantic from 0w-60, 5w-50, 20w-50, etc. to 10w-30 and 5w-30? Does the salty, moist air make the engines tighten up? When I run an engine (light) on synth 5w-30 and my rings are showing significant wear by 100k, I have to question the validity of lighter viscosity oils. When my dad has been running dino 10w-40 for years, and gets his two '91 Escorts up past 180,000 miles each without nary a hint of engine wear, I have to question the validity of lighter viscosity oils.
 
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2,077
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Cordelia, CA
I'm saying CAFE has nothing to do with specifically recommending not to run thicker (or thinner) oils. The automaker fills the engine with 5W30, he recommends 5W30, his CAFE obligation is met.
 

Patman

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21,989
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Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by kev99sl: My owner's manual doesn't say anything like, "20w-50 and all other viscosities not recommended,"
Mine does, so if GM doesn't recommend such a thick oil for a high performance engine like the LT1, they must be on to something. (not that the manufacturers are always right, mind you)
 
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302
Location
Chicago
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: Good points Kevin! But I guess we'll never really know for sure if the car makers have fully tested different oils in their engines and found problems with one viscosity or another. Which is probably an even bigger reason to stick with the common viscosities, since I don't think any engine would be damaged by running 10w30, but I do believe the thicker stuff has the possibility of causing problems.
I would also add that the temperatures in your area have a lot to do with it. 20w-50 in a Chicago winter is an invitation to kill your engine!
 

Patman

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21,989
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Oakville, Ontario
True, which is why 10w30 works so well. With a quality 10w30 you can have pour points of -40F or less, and still have great high temperature protection, so unless you live in Alaska that viscosity should work well for just about anyone. I plan on running 10w30 in the winter in my car from now on also, since it rarely gets below 0F here. According to my owner's manual the 10w30 is good for 0F and up.
 

Ron

Messages
113
Location
Santa Fe,N.M.
Hi guys(gals?) I'm pleased to read these comments regarding 5-50 oils and Castrol. Still,I'm on the fence as to changing from Castrol Syntec 5-50 to some 10-30.My Ford Econoline with it's 4.2L six pushes hard to get moving.The strain and heat of my local climate influenced my choice of Castrol 5-50.It's flying off the shelf here in So.Fla. and elsewhere.If it's all bad hype,or bad oil,alot of us suckers might be in for bad surprises down the road.I will be driving some 5K in seven weeks before I return to Fla.Maybe, that's pushing the VI improvers for this oil.Out of some misguided doubts,I may change to another 'synthetic' oil. I'd like to submit a sample for analysis to confirm something.How do I go about,and is it worth it?Thanks Ron
 
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